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"First Come! — First Served!"
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"First Come! — First Served!" 2024 Copyright by Kolibri. All Rights Reserved. On a small deserted Pacific island languished about forty men from an Oregon ship lost at sea. They had floated in by groups, some as long as seven weeks ago, and others just last week. One of the men was the ship's XO, who was well versed in the ineptitude of the Captain, who caused his ship's sinking. (The Captain, rescued by another boat, answered radio calls to his vessel, denying that his own ship had sunk while claiming that his arrival had only been delayed due to illness and COVID supply chain disruptions.) The stranded men had enough island materials to build a raft, but for just one person. Who should venture out and try to be saved? The XO chose to remain behind to better help the others. So, they chose Ergu, the strongest swimmer since he was the newest strandee from last week and thus still the most fit. Ergu hadn't the knowledge of raft-building or the ocean currents or where the shipping lanes were. He hadn't even a compass, but Ergu was the strongest swimmer of them all. The single-place raft was built and Ergu was taught much by the others, especially by the XO who spent many patient hours in tutoring. Ergu was well supplied with compass, signal mirror, water, rations, and material for shade. The other men had been collecting such things for a long time, and gladly donated it to their common cause for once Ergu was rescued he'd return for them. Ergu was pushed out to sea by the group on their well-provisioned raft they had built for him, and he paddled hard for the shipping lanes. It took effort, but without drama or danger, about two weeks later Ergu was spotted by a cargo ship, and rescued in the same good health he'd cast out to sea. His raft and tutoring had well served him. No more island for Ergu! Wanting to be returned to civilization (and home) as soon as possible, Ergu decided to keep quiet about the stranded men because he knew the cargo ship captain (if informed) would turn course and sail there. Ergu could not brook those several weeks of delay to his return home, so he said nothing. He rejected any moral obligation to help his island mates...even though they had built him their raft and saved his life. "They made it this long, so they can hold out until somebody else finds them! I did all the ocean paddling, and I got myself rescued, so it's first come—first served!" The cargo ship docked at its familiar port, and Ergu moved to quietly slink away despite a growing stream of the curious. Nobody had ever been rescued at sea before, and people wondered what ship he was from. Ergu remained vague as he tried to flee the dock and jump in a waiting Uber. The cargo ship crane began lowering his wooden raft, which captured attention of the crowd. As they clamored around to grasp the raft overhead and guide it down, Ergu tried to shoo them off with "Back away—I've got this!" Noticed by all, including Ergu for the first time, were some words carved in a raft plank on the bottom. The raft was gently placed on the dock, and then turned upside down by the crowd for eager inspection. (What was so oddly written on the bottom?) Carefully and very legibly carved in the wood by the XO's worn hand were the names and sailing dates of all the men stranded off the sunk Oregon ship, the approximate coordinates of the small unknown island, and the date they launched Ergu out to sea for what they'd trusted would be their own rescue because of his. Many of the stranded men were known by the crowd, but not known to be lost at sea because of their Captain's fictitious "We're only delayed!" story continually broadcast over the radio. At once, a plane was dispatched to drop supplies to the betrayed men on the desolate island, and a message telling them that their plight was now known at last—their rescue currently under way. Ergu did manage to slip away and catch his Uber in the confusion, and thought it wise to not return to that Port. Some forty rescued men would soon be arriving, their faces he could not bear to see after they'd learned he had placed himself over those who had who sacrificed to save him. He could easily imagine the harangue of the XO: "First come—first served, eh?" As the Scripture sayeth, "So the last shall be first, and the first, last." It occurred to Ergu much later that some wins are actually losses. One can betray his brothers for his own rescue, but what traitor was ever worthy of rescue at all? To come in "first" by betrayal is to assure finishing in last place. Integrity is loyalty to those not present. Ergu had weeks on the raft to embed that moral deeply within his soul, but the sentiment evaporated once aboard the cargo ship and savoring his first hot meal. Now, it was too late. The hidden message on the raft was out. The island men were soon to be rescued. Honor is surrounded by rocky shoals, nearly impossible to scale once slipped off. Ergu would have many years to ponder that, while he missed the scruffy camaraderie of those forgotten souls, who once considered him their brother and waved "Good sailing! Godspeed!" as he set forth on the life raft they'd built just for him. They threw all their coins in one fountain, but the fountain would fail them. "Remember us!" they had implored as the salt water first lapped over the crude planks while he took his place aboard. He would indeed remember them, although against his will and at the most inconvenient times. The forgotten and stranded and exploited can be stubborn that way. |
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| Fri Apr 05, 2024 2:35 am |
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The first refund of an M2 deposit that I've ever heard of was paid this week to a May 2023 Montana customer. He received his US$60,000 back only after vigorously pursuing the matter through the Montana and Oregon Consumer Protection agencies of the respective state Departments of Justice, as well as the Better Business Bureau.
Below is a screenshot of his withdrawn complaint in Oregon, due to SC's eventual payment. You can confirm such for yourself at https://justice.oregon.gov/consumerssearch/ (search for Sport Copter in Scappoose with ZIP code 97056). SC is allegedly now flush with new funds, so now would be a good time to press JV for any desired refund of your M2 deposit. I am owed an engine-less M2 (or the value thereof) since at least 2021 (if not 2020), but I will wait my turn until previous depositors have been paid. I wish us all Good Luck! You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. _________________ Famous-Infamous for speaking the truth on "the other forum" from 2014-2019. |
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| Sat Apr 06, 2024 10:21 am |
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The above Montana customer had filed the below complaint about Sport Copter with the Better Business Bureau in March 2024.
https://www.bbb.org/us/or/scappoose/profile/helicopter/sport-international-1296-75000037/complaints You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. _________________ Famous-Infamous for speaking the truth on "the other forum" from 2014-2019. |
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| Thu Apr 18, 2024 4:12 pm |
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 Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:30 pm Posts: 1248 Location: UP A GUMTREE Has thanked: 1949 times Been thanked: 1688 times
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SO GLAD the Montana Eric - got his refund ...Smart guy, KNOWS how to pull out the big guns
  to make "TROS"  !!Too bad poor Bill Totten - long time local chapter member - IS STILL WAITING for HIS refund - after he forked out for a Magni - to have something to fly before he got too old! ......w-a-i-t-i-n-g!!!   The poor Aussies & Kiwis - just get  !  _________________  |
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| Wed May 15, 2024 7:40 pm |
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I've heard of a few SC customers waiting years for their gyro who died before ever taking delivery.
I'm glad that Bill Totten bought a Magni to enjoy some gyro flying in his emeritus years. I hope he gets his $60,000 M2 refund, which was deserved long before the 2023 Montana customer's. IMO, Bill has been too nice to JV about this, and should have played hardball last year. Let's recap briefly those who are unfulfilled:
New Zealand SC distributor...skinned out of his M2 and $100,000. Over a dozen Kiwi and Aussie deposit customers...skinned out of their M2s and on average $50,000+. Former SC COO...skinned out of his M2 and $100,000+ work compensation. PRA Chapter 73 President...skinned out of his M2 and $60,000. So, who is the first person getting an M2, ever? Steve Wolfe, an Ohio M912 owner and friend of JV, who plunked down his deposit in only November 2020. https://www.rotaryforum.com/threads/spo ... st-1202842 To hell with, apparently, those in business with/for SC, or M2 customers from 2017-2019. _________________ Famous-Infamous for speaking the truth on "the other forum" from 2014-2019. |
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| Fri May 17, 2024 1:17 pm |
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Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:30 pm Posts: 1248 Location: UP A GUMTREE Has thanked: 1949 times Been thanked: 1688 times
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Steve Wolf I think is a "temporary "friend- of "TROS" - playing suck-up ...and standing over TROS - camped out for weeks there, every day HOUNDING & whip-cracking!
 To get his build done!Either way - it iS VERY SKETCHY FORM to jump some-one ahead of the other long-time depositors! I hope the others start making legal noises! _________________ |
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| Mon May 20, 2024 3:07 pm |
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From what I hear, one reason for Wolfe's build is to fly at upcoming gyro events as proof of M2 "production" to garner new deposit orders for SC. "One robin does not make a Spring."
The added weight and thrust of the Viking 195 with its thrustline offset will manifest in many teething issues to sort out. The torque roll tendency should be significant, and much more pronounced that the Rotax 915 gyros. I hope Wolfe racks up many solo hours in it before he takes on passengers, as his machine will be a handful. MOSAIC will not likely save the estimated 930 lb M2-195 from busting 1320 lb LSA with an adult pax and fuel. Apparently, the ASTM horsepower:weight formula will remain. _________________ Famous-Infamous for speaking the truth on "the other forum" from 2014-2019. |
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| Thu May 23, 2024 1:14 pm |
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The ASTM formula only applies to aircraft certified under S-LSA standards, but since JV has continuously said that he plans to certify a light sport M2, the issue is still relevant.
ASTM max empty weight formula is 1320 lb - (number of seats x 190 lb) - (maximum continuous hp / 2). The Rotax 915 M2 prototype weighed in at 875 lb empty (not the website's 830). Applying the ASTM formula: 1320 - (190 x 2) - (141 / 2) gives a max empty weight of 869.5 lb. Thus, 5.5 lb overweight per ASTM. Useful load is just 455 lbs, which is two FAA 190 lb occupants and 12.5 gal of fuel. Add 55 lbs for the Viking 195 for a new empty weight of 930 lbs. Applying the ASTM formula: 1320 - (190 x 2) - (195 / 2) gives a max empty weight of 842.5 lb. 87.5 lb overweight per ASTM. Unless Steve Wolfe is Private-Gyro rated and his M2-195 classified as a Private-class gyro, his estimated useful load is now only 390 lb, which is two FAA 190 lb occupants and 1.7 gal of fuel. I pointed this out to JV in 2020-2021 when we were looking for more power than the Rotax 915, but he waved off such concern with his belief that the coming LSA rule changes (now known as MOSAIC) would solve everything. I replied that such changes were years hence, and "The M2 when carrying an adult passenger has now weight busted out of the Sport-Gyro market. M2 owners would need to become Private-Gyro rated, and there aren't enough gyro DPEs for that." JV remained outwardly oblivious that the heavy M2 could not be flown by 98% of USA gyro pilots (who are not Private rated) when taking on a pax and x/c fuel. It was about then that I began to develop deep concerns for the project, especially when JV began to experiment with the embarrassing "Wing Step" canard as a Band-Aid for the nose-down moment at speed when 2-up. _________________ Famous-Infamous for speaking the truth on "the other forum" from 2014-2019. |
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| Fri May 24, 2024 1:50 pm |
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Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:30 pm Posts: 1248 Location: UP A GUMTREE Has thanked: 1949 times Been thanked: 1688 times
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VERY INTERESTING observations - and MOSAIC math computations! Kolibri!
Be interesting to see how Steve Wolf presents his M2!! He is usually my campground neighbor at Mentone! I'll be sure to monitor the "promotion" of this FUBAR model! _________________ |
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| Sun May 26, 2024 11:22 am |
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Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:30 pm Posts: 1248 Location: UP A GUMTREE Has thanked: 1949 times Been thanked: 1688 times
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Denis of GYROTECHNIC ...is getting LOTS of requests for a TWO-place version of his beautiful modified -hornet single-place, and very sweet-flying, successful entry-level modernized gyro!
I am concerned that he may have trouble "UPSCALING" this great single -place! Yet Ernie Boyette DID - with the Dominator! Anyone here have "caveats" for Denis on his 2-place development - that made both Butterfly & SportCopter (great singles ) make such HORRIBLE two-place gyros!!????? _________________ |
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| Sun May 26, 2024 11:28 am |
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But for the 125 lb extra weight, forward CG, thrustline, and negative incidence of the tall cabin windshield...the M2 would have been a winner. Modeling software and CFD would have pointed out poor specs to avoid. JV has well refined his father's single seat, but hasn't succeeded with any 2-seat and now he's put SC in quite a hole trying.
Denis at GyroTechnic reverse engineered JV's Sport Rotor blade technology (which I took great exception to back in 2019 when I was at SC), and now probably outsells SC in 7" chord blades, and possibly 912 single-seat gyro kits. 8" chord blades on a decent 2-seat seems within his grasp, if the weight can be kept down to accept a more affordable Rotax 914. _________________ Famous-Infamous for speaking the truth on "the other forum" from 2014-2019. Last edited by Kolibri on Tue May 28, 2024 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total. |
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| Mon May 27, 2024 1:08 am |
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Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:30 pm Posts: 1248 Location: UP A GUMTREE Has thanked: 1949 times Been thanked: 1688 times
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Kolibri wrote: But for the 125 lb extra weight, forward CG, thrustline, and negative incidence of the tall cabin windshield...the M2 would have been a winner. Modeling software and CFD would have pointed out poor specs to avoid. JV has well refined his father's single seat, but hasn't succeeded with any 2-seat and now he's put SC in quite a hole trying. Denis at GyroTechnic reverse engineered JV's Sport Rotor blade technology (which I took great exception to back in 2021 when I was at SC), and now probably outsells SC in 7" chord blades, and possibly 912 single-seat gyro kits. 8" chord blades on a decent 2-seat seems within his grasp, if the weight can be kept down to accept a more affordable Rotax 914. And MANY gyro-owners are NOW profoundly grateful to Denis for "copying" and refining the SC rotor style. With Dragon wings gone, SC rotors in slow-mode delivery & poor paint quality when they do arrive - -- the "new-guy" deserves every sale! Aviomania - IF they get their act together and GyroTechnic look to be the entry level kits of the future! IMHO Yes if Denis can keep his 2-place along the geometry & weight of the Aviomania duo - it should be a winner!   _________________ |
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| Mon May 27, 2024 2:26 pm |
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Dropbear wrote: And MANY gyro-owners are NOW profoundly grateful to Denis for "copying" and refining the SC rotor style. With Dragon wings gone, SC rotors in slow-mode delivery & poor paint quality when they do arrive - -- the "new-guy" deserves every sale! When I joined SC in Summer 2018, they had a full-time machinist, painter, blade man, carbon-fiber man, and a part-time welder. (They also had me as COO, whose talent and experience with finance and mgt. was nearly completely unused. I was never allowed to see the company books, not even to calculate their product unit cost. All that data was hidden from me, probably because the books were too embarrassing.) Due completely to JV mismanagement (and not because his or his wife's heath issues) and the increasingly delayed M2 (which would two years later show nose-tuck issues near MGW at 70+ mph), all but one of those people were let go or left for greener pastures. By Summer 2019 I had been at SC for about a year, and was very protective of their technology and reputation. Sport Rotors had never failed a pilot, and were still being produced then at a reasonable delivery, with great quality. I often helped Gene with their production. In some 2018-2019 phone chat with Denis (a Sport Rotors dealer) JV foolishly divulged enough production details (acid etching and bonding techniques) for Denis to become a direct competitor. I was livid about it, and accused JV of allowing Denis to "eat out of our food bowl" at least regarding the 7" chord blades. This criticism was breezily waved off with his confidence in the next stage of blade development (in carbon-fiber) which would allegedly make obsolete the aluminum blades. So, yeah, I'm in part glad that Sport Rotor technology is being produced elsewhere to take up the gap created solely by JV, but I didn't like the way it happened. (My grandfather was an inventor with over a dozen patents, and I believe that inventors should reap the lion's share of their technology's success.) The adhesive bonding of skins to an extruded solid leading edge was a great gyro blade innovation of JV, but he has frittered away that former monopoly. I hadn't heard of Sport Rotors' recent poor paint quality, but given SC's greatly reduced staff such doesn't surprise me. While Jim and Evan could by themselves construct any of their gyro models, that is not mass-production. SC is a boutique firm, not a factory. This is what I and M2 customers did not understand then. And, IMO, SC will never become an actual factory with JV in charge. His own hubris blinds him from realizing that he hasn't the full mgt./technical package. I thought I could help SC become the "VANS RV of gyros" but that was a futile mission. To those who accuse me and others of "trying to ruin SC"...I just want JV to cease taking deposits for the M2 which I know will never be produced. My friends who invested $3m in SC (now "secured creditors" for $4+m, and thus effectively owning SC) would benefit by some portion of SC continue (M912 sales, Sport Rotors, part support) versus some "fire sale" in bankruptcy court. That's what I'd like to see happen, but it's time to end the M2 "production" fantasy. _________________ Famous-Infamous for speaking the truth on "the other forum" from 2014-2019. |
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| Tue May 28, 2024 1:53 pm |
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I've flown the M2 with JV, who did not allow our speed to exceed ~75 mph. Although the stick roll feel was light and snappy, it had a heavy pitch feel. Also, I was there when JV and his son Mick returned after high-speed M2 testing, and JV's face was ashen at the disappointing and draggy ~80 mph top speed with two 200 lb occupants (and about 5-10 gal fuel). JV had claimed a solo top speed of 110 mph, so, at MGW the M2 loses about 30 mph (later admitted by SC in a website Update).
The purpose of the below pdf (downloadable, btw) was to analyze why the Sport Copter M2 needed a lifting canard "Wing Step" when other gyros do not. It was written with the best information then available, with as much objectivity as personally possible. I am willing to correct any errors of fact or estimation, but none have been so far provided to me by SC. I was there in 2020 for the W&B, thus the 875 lb empty weight and the longitudinal empty CG quoted are accurate. Fuel and occupant CG are estimated, but very credible as is by extrapolation the MGW CG being unfavorably forward. Empty CG on the vertical line was conservatively estimated at 6" below prop thrustline (though I believe it's probably 7-10"). Thus, at MGW, the thrustine offset would increase to 9.3". (Even if the M2 were CLT — which assuredly it is not — with people and fuel to 1320 lb MGW the in-flight thrustline offset would increase to 5.3", which would still provide a significant pitch-down moment.) Although the Magni M24 Orion has a greater prop thrustline offset, such is apparently countered by a more rearward CG and a negative incidence H-stab. Finally, what truly adds to the M2's nose tuck at MGW is the tall and wide 30° cabin windshield, which acts as a negative wing. All three of the concurrent characteristics (forward CG, thrustline offset, and cabin aerodynamics) were "baked in the cake" of the M2's design. Such were avoidable, as many other 2-place gyros have demonstrated. In conclusion, even if the M2 were ever produced/delivered in credible numbers...and even if two adults with more than a few gallons of fuel wouldn't bust LSA 1320 lb, the two occupants would still experience strong nose-tuck for much reduced top speed, climb rate, fuel economy, and range. I'd have been very disappointed in mine with such tendencies. Perhaps the "Wing Step" effectively reduces some nose-tuck, but it's reportedly been removed from the solitary flying prototype N828SC (probably due at least to poor aesthetics). I had very high hopes for the M2 when I relocated 1,300 miles in 2018 to become the SC COO. While the M2 has many fine features, I believe the design was essentially stillborn with inherent defects which would require an expensive near total redux to eliminate. Thanks for your attention, and I welcome all intelligent comments. If I've gotten anything wrong, I'm keen to be corrected, thanks. You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. _________________ Famous-Infamous for speaking the truth on "the other forum" from 2014-2019. |
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| Thu Jun 13, 2024 5:14 pm |
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Instead of the pdf's empty M2 thrustline offset estimate of a conservative 6", I believe it's probably ~9". That translates to an MGW thrustline offset of ~12". Meaning, the MGW thrustline has an arm of 1' from the M2's MGW vertical CG. That's a lot.
660 lb thrust = 660 lb nose-down torque Aeromomentum AM15-Turbo 718 lb thrust = 718 lb nose-down torque Honda Viking 195 819 lb thrust = 819 lb nose-down torque Thus, the M2's 1330-1489 lb total nose-down torque approaches the excessive figure of the Magni M24's 1541 lb. A negative incidence H-stab would have been the least-worst Band-Aid, but the M2 carbon-fiber tail assembly was designed to bond as one piece (a case of being "too clever"), and the expensive plugs and molds cannot be altered to change the H-stab AoA. The M2 is stuck with the H-stab it has, which is why I described the issue as "baked in the cake". Instead, a canard "Wing Step" was chosen to pick up the nose even though such canard has a shorter arm and less surface area than an H-stab. Thus, the "Wing Step" could not be as effective as an H-stab with even modest negative incidence in rotating the nose up around the gyro's vertical CG. So, without an expensive redesign of at least the tail, the M2 at/near MGW is stuck with ~80 mph top speed, and increasingly pitch heavy stick along the way. The Magni M24 is known as a very slow/draggy side-by-side gyro, but the Sport Copter M2 is apparently slower and draggier still. As mentioned earlier, it is highly advisable to CAD model new gyro designs for CG, thrustline, and aerodynamics. The M2's design defects were wholly avoidable. _________________ Famous-Infamous for speaking the truth on "the other forum" from 2014-2019. |
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| Wed Jun 19, 2024 2:19 pm |
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And so when can we expect a detailed breakdown of the engineering and financial difficulties of other brands of Gyroplanes on the experimental market....
You know with detailed drawings from the company? Or are you on a one man crusade to punish a company you had a falling out over? I think your treading on seriously thin ice ... Why don't you just shut the fuck up about It...rather than trying to bury your former employer as a disgruntled EX employee? I am sooo sick and tired of your one man crusade to fuck Sportcopter over. You can paint it however you like, but its obvious at this point you are just a bitter little man. Enough already. |
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| Wed Jun 19, 2024 10:00 pm |
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Henry Bowman wrote: And so when can we expect a detailed breakdown of the engineering and financial difficulties of other brands of Gyroplanes on the experimental market.... When another company so mucks up their own 2-seater design and then blows $3,000,000 in venture capital as well as $2,000,000 in customer deposits, while claiming for 2.5 years to be "in production" with 0 units...I'll look into it for you. Glad you received your Scappoose 582 gyro back in 2020. You're one of the handful who ever did. When you've put a hefty deposit on your own M2, then you'll have similar skin in this game and can join the ~45 of us "disgruntled". Meanwhile, if you don't like my posts (the facts of which you've never refuted), then don't read 'em. You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. _________________ Famous-Infamous for speaking the truth on "the other forum" from 2014-2019. Last edited by Kolibri on Sun Jul 07, 2024 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total. |
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| Thu Jun 20, 2024 3:12 am |
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 Site Admin  Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:45 am Posts: 10129 Location: Poona, Qld, OZZY Has thanked: 21874 times Been thanked: 6221 times
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I am worried for the forum (for which I am responsible for) that all of this constant attacking of Sport Copter (which is beginning to become borderline slander) ... that Jim may level a suit against the forum (which I guess is me).
I have no means to fight a law suit, so I have 2 choices. I can either let this barrage of attacks against Sport Copter keep going and risk legal issues for the forum (and myself) ... or remove posts (or threads) which are directing constant attacks against SC. I guess there is another possibility, one I would hate to have to resort to ... which is to close down the forum all together ... not something I want to do, but if I am left with no choice, it might have to be done. I have been here for 10 years ... we have never had any issues like this before ... I have seen the general decline of participating members and am saddened by that. This forum could be so good. I am always hoping for existing members to participate and new members to come along and bring new life to the forum, but no, it just seems we have a constant barrage of attacks on one manufacturer by a new member set on attacking SC. I have to decide what to do ... whether to remove posts, remove threads ... remove said member ... or remove the forum all together. I am swaying towards removing this thread and others attacking Jim and SC, so if this thread or other posts disappear, you will know why. I can understand that there may be justification for complaint by said member, but we are all aware of the story and the attacks need to stop ... and it will be ultimately up to me to stop them. (and stop them I will) I am asking for this constant attacking to stop voluntarily, I don't want to be forced to stop it. _________________ I do all of my own stunts..... most of them are even planned! Ok, Ok.... some of them are planned.. If electricity comes from ELECTRONS, then surely morality comes from MORONS?? |
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| Thu Jun 20, 2024 10:25 pm |
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 Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:56 am Posts: 3073 Location: VERY LOW LOW LOW EARTH ORBIT Has thanked: 3078 times Been thanked: 3854 times
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Or a simple statement
"The views of the posters are not associated or endorsed by the owners of Sky Wolverines And Posters are alone responsible for their conduct and content of posts" Free Speech is never supported in todays world. Lets be different.  These Euro tub clones and any gyro in the market isn't original - Just another eyeballed contraption from someone else. |
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| Thu Jun 20, 2024 10:36 pm |
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MadMuz wrote: II can understand that there may be justification for complaint by said member, but we are all aware of the story and the attacks need to stop ... and it will be ultimately up to me to stop them. (and stop them I will) I am asking for this constant attacking to stop voluntarily, I don't want to be forced to stop it. MadMuz, I had a technical point to make about the M2, and I've done so in my recent pre-Benry posts, which were catalyzed by Dropbear's comment on Steve Wolfe's M2 build. The law on defamation: Quote: Defamation law will only consider statements defamatory if they are, in fact, false. A true statement is not considered defamation in many states. In some states, truth is a defense. https://www.findlaw.com/injury/torts-an ... asics.html Defamation requires false statements to be made with:
Actual malice against his reputation I've never posted anything I knew or even suspected to be false, and I've tried to post for the benefit of the gyro community. One can be "disgruntled" yet tell the truth without being malicious. JV knows how to email me but has yet to even ask me to stop posting about the M2, much less corrected any of my alleged factual errors. Your forum is not at legal risk, and a disclaimer such as Hillberg mentioned would clarify that. Have you noticed that JV of SC has never chosen to directly address my assertions here? He could join and post, but he does not. Such would be his onus if he actually believes me in error. However, cui tacit consentire, or he who remains silent consents. That said, I'm not on an "anti-SC" crusade here, and I don't plan to post further about SC since having made my M2 technical points. I don't want SC to go out of business, as their single-seats are great machines and still in production from what I hear. I'd like SC to continue selling them, which can provide some payment to my friends who invested $3m in SC and have a court judgment for $4.1m. Thank you for your forum and forbearance! G'day. _________________ Famous-Infamous for speaking the truth on "the other forum" from 2014-2019. |
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| Fri Jun 21, 2024 1:12 am |
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