Short story ... just for fun ....

yesterday someone called a friend of mine running a gyroplane company .. and said : " I was flying with a trainee in his gyroplane and we heard a sort of violent vibration and noise".

"we have just landed, what do you think it could come from ?"

my friend told him, I don't know this gyro and I can't make a diagnostic if I don't see the gyro from my own eyes , don't fly it and bring it to me ...

the trainee jumped in his gyro and flew 100 km landed on my friend airfield ...

here is where the noise came from ...

one of the 2 plates holding the head main body had broken in 2 parts ...

the pilot , the instructor are two stupid persons making no descent pre-flight inspection ...

as for the rotor head I still don't understand why the hell people still fly with welded rotor heads ... a rotor still vibrates

Lord looks out for fools and children.
Great googly moogly! I can't believe that got them about 60 miles without killing them!
Spooky shit....

That is sooooo true!

he should buy a lottery ticket with luck like that

Funny to read that quote. In Hungarian, the same saying refers to the drunk and the children..... friggin alcoholic culture!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The real problem with people having money and no common sense is that when things go South the whole community endures the blame.
It's giving the haters ammo to slam the gyro community and label them unsafe.
But again. Negative comes naturally to humans.
If it weren't so Tony Robinson would have never made it!
Glad these two fools made it but I am not sure if this won't be their last encounter with ignorance.
Some people are just destined that way.

What is wrong with that? Meh... a bit of freshly chewed chewing gum along the seam and a couple of cable ties and it would have been fine (for about .52556798 of a second)

I wonder if they worked out what could possibly have caused the shake?

Sheet yall, JB Weld it!
That fucker'll hold!

I have always hated this kind of rotor heads,

the 2 cheek plates have 2 vertical slots in which 2 vertical plates are inserted and welded and the rolling bolt is traversing those 2 vertical plates holding the entire gyro



American rotor heads are also using those vertical plates, but they are bolted to the cheek plates .. 4 fuckin screws, it can't brake and never broke




the Autogyro and Ela rotor heads types have an history

the man who invented this kind of rotor heads (I mean welded with the slots etc) was a French man called Jean Pierre Doléac who was a bicycle dealer before getting into gyroplane business in the 80's

this man was living in the south west of France, in the nest of French amateur gyroplane movement near Toulouse.

he was also making rotors

he was the competitor of Xavier Averso who was making rotors, rotor heads, and gyroplane kits

Averso was doing a good job , using thick aluminium main bodies for his rotor heads, his rotors were built with a single hub bar , on the contrary the Doleac rotor had a double Blade hub with screws going through the two blades sandwiching the rotor blades .




when the rotor is conning the screw holes of the hub cannot stay perfectly in front of each other, it caused many cracks, and 2 deaths ... the last 3 months ago is to end the extruded aluminium blades German certification..

Averso used a single bar with two shorts 'hand' plates at the ends , those hands being shorter and the cone being formed in the middle of the hub, this system was not dangerous and never caused any accident...

the holes stay in front of each other and in addition there is a metal inster into the rotor blades so that the exctruded blades are not squeezed ... it has not always been the case of autogyro rotors




The Doleac rotor type and The Doleac rotor head were copied by autogyro.

when autogyro company started it's activity, it's founder purchased the system to Doleac.

Both Ela and autogyro where attending our French annual gyro festival ... this is where those 2 companies founders learnt to make gyros .. a bit Like Gab teached a us maker to make a descent gyro as he told us previously on our forum.

the Problem with gyroplane is exactly what Chuck Beaty described ... anybody can make a gyro using the twin blade rotors invented by Bensen ... and many people found in an easy way of making aircrafts (it does not require a long design time).

Girodreamer,

thank you for your informative post. It's always great getting more info.

Yes, we all await the final report of the Thomas Kiggen crash. The grandfather of the Auto-Gyro gyros.

The preliminary report was a joke, blaming bad possibly maintenance and showing pictures from somewhere else....

So far I am so happy I changed my Type1 Auto-Gyro rotor to a Polish Gyro-Tech rotor of same size.

I did not like the way Type1 and 2 rotor hubs clamp down on the extruded blade.

The Gyro-Tech blade interfaces with the hub plates in a way, that doesn't make the same stress concentration.

It has the Averso type single hub bar and blades are of carbon fiber with steel inside (I could see it on my compass...).

It's performing very well - only thing missing is final balancing in my own teeter head. Done with a bearing "module" adjusted sideways.

But because of insurance costs my gyro is on vacation until April 1st.

Cheers
Erik

BTW, I translated a late 2014 "Aerokurier" interview with the Auto-Gyro boss:

(If you read German, here is the original: https://www.aerokurier.de/ultraleicht/a ... interview/)

Otmar Birkner is the boss and founder of the world's largest gyroplane manufacturer AutoGyro. At first it was far from certain that this would happen.

That's how it all started

Hello, Otmar, nice to see you. Otherwise you will rarely be met. Yes, it is not my great pleasure to be the center of attention. The store has grown quickly, so there is no way to get to know each customer personally.

This is not meant to be angry with anyone - that is the sheer necessity. We are on the road with 1,700 gyroscopes around the world.

Today you are the international number one. How did it all start?

In 2003 Thomas Kiggen came around the corner with such a strange thing that was hanging on a rotor and for some reason did not want to fall off even at slow flight. I didn't know gyrocopter until then and I wasn't even aware of what all this could mean.
Thomas and I have started to improve and certify his gyroplane. At that time I was self-employed building trikes and a flight school. In 2004 we built nine or ten gyroplanes. In 2005 it was already 23. The next hall was due.
Thomas then took care of the school, I took care of the production.

It was based on a Spanish pattern, right?

Right, it started with an ELA. For approval we had to change many points that the manufacturer did not agree with. So we started our own production. The Spaniards slammed the door on themselves.

That sounds adventurous.

We took a high economic risk. Our starting capital was the willingness to put a lot of work into the project. There were hardly any bank loans, everything had to be financed from the current state of affairs.
At some point I made the decision to only manufacture gyroplanes. Even today, all of this is still a risk every day. Last year, for example, we invested 4.7 million euros in new buildings.

Did you design Cavalon and Calidus?

Yes, the ideas for new patterns come from me. A good team supports me when it comes to the details in CAD planning. I studied mechatronics myself, and I also enjoy good design. The Cavalon was honored with the Red Dot Award, among other things.

What does the future hold at AutoGyro?

Together with Bosch Aviation GmbH we are working on an electrically powered Cavalon. We want to start with it at the end of 2014. At the beginning it will be a feasibility study to show that you can fly electric traffic laps with a gyroplane.
If we think two battery generations ahead, then smaller cross-country flights should certainly also be considered. An 82 kW motor from the automotive sector is available to us as a drive.

When will the AutoGyro UL helicopter arrive?

I think the current structures of the UL scene are unsuitable for operating helicopters. Of course we could technically realize such a development, but at the moment I don't want to.

Where do you see your gyroplane market?

The business of the future will certainly lie in all types of surveillance - whether these are pipeline flights or police operations. I also see a market for four-seater gyrocopters in large-scale countries with poor infrastructure.

A four seat UL?

No, it won't be a UL anymore. Our goal is an EASA certification. All processes in the company are already geared towards this. This step would open the door to new markets for us. Speaking of EASA: Did you have your fingers in the game when the MTOW for gyroplanes was increased to 560 kilograms?
Definitely no! We fell off our chairs ourselves when we heard this.

Do you still have time for a private life?

The boundaries between work and private life are blurring. When I visit our partners around the world, I enjoy being out and about in foreign countries in a gyroplane. Whether Namibia, Costa Rica or a visit to my buddy Willy Ewig in Australia - many business trips are also a bit of vacation.
At home I often ride my mountain bike. I also dive and like to go sailing. I've been married for almost 20 years and have two daughters aged 12 and 14.

About the Hildesheim crash...

DULV (German Ultralight Organisation) has released a safety warning concerning aluminum blades.

It says:

Gyros with alu blades.

These gyros must (should?) have their alu rotors checked:
(see picture)

Cheers
Erik

rcfier,
you did well to get rid of the autogyro rotor ...

David the averso extruded blades are thicker then the autogyro ones, nothing to see, the dulv certified them on the dta for 2000 hours TBO (700 for the autogyro one with a obligation of 2 inspection in between !)

I hate the european bath tub gyro, but the one I hate the most is the autogyro (mto3 and Mto sport) I will never ever fly on such a gyro ...

Autogyro has been financed by public german money, and now they are under chapter 11 ..meaning they took the money, and did not pay they creditors ...

the rotor head broken part.







a M4 control end rod .... some pilots are totally mad ...

Bullshiit

Look at this old Doléac gyroplane



have a look to the rotor Hub, ela never used this double blade rotor HUB

have a look to the the rotor head ( similar to the ela heads , but doléac was in the business long before ELA

have a look to the rudder (don't you recognise the MTO3 tail ?)

have a look to the landing gear fiberglass blade

not that autogyro founder did not try to pass an agreement with ela, I don't know, but I know that this is doléac who inveted this head , this hub system and this rudder shape ...

Even Magni was coming to the bois de la pierre festival, He did not get anything from Doleac or averso cause he has purchased a licence from tervamakki but he was there in this fantastic meeting where everybody in europe was meeting and copying each other of course

what I meant is that the first autogyros (mto3) were cpoies of existing gyros , legally or not I don't know .. they did not invented anything at this time

after this they made other gyros like the cavalon using carbon frames etc, they certainly did research .. and they managed to do nothing better ...

I have never understood why people have bought their products ... stainless steel frames with a 1500 hours TBO ... 700 hours TBO for the rotors ... hillarious

Not much weld area on that mast part, eh?

About the interview - the interesting part was, it was Thomas Kiggen who started Auto-Gyro building gyros.

When I bought my gyro, I just saw a gyro I could afford. A Magni would've been nice also.

(and yes, I also don't like it's welded stainless steel. 700 hours was the UK rule - now not valid)

But "fortunately" my first would-be instructor made a dent in my rotor -

unfortunately he claimed to the insurance company he could procure

another used type 1 rotor cheaply - (he should've shut up)

So I could've gotten a much better deal with the insurance company.

As it was, I had to shell out quite a lot of cash on top to get the rotor I wanted.

Besides getting an expensive helmet (I have an expensive head), new radio

and many other odds and ends.

Still, I'm told, it's a cheapish MTO. I just wish it was certified for 500 kgs instead of 450.

Room for "normal" people and full fuel tanks.....

My instructor I'm using can really fly well and he has a great feel for what the gyro and I am doing.

He may not be the nicest teacher, as he scolds a lot, but he wants me to learn to fly well, so it's okay - I'll survive.

And he has helped me tremendously with getting my gyro fit for flight. Using a lot of time at no expense to me.

Cheers
Erik

I understand that when it comes to buy a second hand gyro, money is a concern

all of this is fuckin dear for the time we spend in the air

second hand mto's and stainless steel ela's are cheaper ...

but gosh .. the only reason why autogyro and ela started their business building stainless steel frames is that it cost them less then building serious aircrafts ...

for decades aircrafts have been built from wood, aluminium or chromolly steel tubes .. not stainless ..

again and again 40 years old deluc and averso gyros made from round aluminium bolted tubes have never had any crack, any bent masts nothing ..

so why the hell building gyros from stainless steel ?

honestly I am a bad pilot , I love to play .. short landings are my favorite game .. I did many many fuckin ass hole hard landings .. I have never ever bent my mast or my frame (ok sometimes my landing gear legs.. but never the frame)

no cracks

I don't know if my tandem will fly ok .. but with a rotax turbocharged engine it weights 235 kilos .. not 290 kilos ... and for real not on the paper..

one time I got mad speaking with my mates who were telling that magni's ela's etc were weighting 275 kilos, the day after I came with 3 fuckin scales and began weighting all the 25 gyros of the hangar .. the lightest I have weighted was 295 kilos !

the enclosed one were all 320 kilos !

how come an ass hole like me can build a 235 kilos tandem while stock gyros makers are making 55 kg heavier gyros ..?


an aircraft must be light and tough !

Bolted tube gyros can be repaired easily, cheaply fastly without stripping everything .. unbolt the tube , cut and drill an other one and blolt it back .. end of the story ...

I don't have anything to sell ..

those gyro existed .. they are not made and sold anymore .. just because all of this is a fuckin business ..

when a pilot makes a bad landing, it takes a new frame and 150 hours of work to repair a welded frame .. makers love rebuilts,

it leads owners to take dear insurances, and insurances are paying for dear repairs ...

yanyway ..

it is perfectly possible to have fun and to fly safefly with a mto, it need close pre-flight inspections and you can't do a lot of short landings ...

how come a gyro can be designed and sold without Shocks ?

Shocks protect frames .. shockless landing gear is sometimg I don't understand ..

let's say I am really bizzare .. hahaha

Giro, you would absolutely love Jim V's Sportcopter Designs.
Pricey, debatable built hell for stout?
I've wrecked and rebuilt my rig twice over.
Any other machi e would have been fatal. I have no doubts about that.
I know you build your own stuff just for you, look at his designs for inspration...the shocks on my Vortex are light simple and extreme and yet the new coil over suspension for the 912 is WAY more capable!
Hell I have owned dirt bikes with less travel!

yep Benry,

irresitible

more seriously do you think they could make rotors for europeans heads ?

Girodreamer,

I believe you are correct on all accounts.

Too bad the most-selling manufacturers didn't make sound designs.

But I now have to do the best I can with what I've got. And I think

a better rotor and a better (and much cheaper) Ukrainian Aeroprop propeller

is the best I can do. Maybe if I could put on some larger wheels...

But that'll cost me a new front fork. And right now I can't afford that.

I have to finish getting my license before I do anything else.

Thank you for enlightening us about the past. I had never heard much

about french gyros. Please go on - I would like to know more.

Cheers
Erik

Giro, they already produce rotor heads and blades for RAF's.
Wouldnt it be eaiser to just have them design build a rotorhead that fits on top of existing Euros?
I'm not a machinist.
And I have known Jims daughter since she was knne high to a grasshopper and she is turning out every bit as pretty as her mom.