I have seen 4 Cavalons go down in 6 months. I inspected two that were terrible builds. Then two more crashes in the last two weeks!!! Who is training these guys? Who is building these like shit!! I am sorry this is absolutly pathetic!!

We are never going to get good insurance rates!!
Who is inspecting the builds and test flying them prior to flying the 40 hours off?

Hey they are AutoGyro Right! They never do anything wrong! Of course I do not know what I am talking about I just have fixed over 20 of them and tested them for people. But now they have there special guys... that do not have a clue!
Who needs insurance anyway! Just do not crash! Problem solved!!

I haven't heard of these crashes over here? When have these happened?

SteveUK will be happy, he will have more hits on his web page?

Were there any injuries (or worse?)

No they mostly seem tip overs on landing. One was a bounce and sounded like the new soloed pilot got confused and put the cyclic in the wrong direction going into the tip over. But I did not see it.
Desmond know so much more than I do about most of them.

Um...Training?

Cavalon, MTO sport, Caliduse are all well designed but nothing is fool proof.
I have heard that Cavalons are not as forgiving as the other two.
I hope these are all just mess ups and nothing typical.
Sometimes these things happen in a bunch because finally the weather is nice and they all go out flying at once.
Hopefully no one got hurt. Machines can be fixed and replaced.
It would be a great idea for AutoGyro GMBH to actually hire people who are not in training themselves ....
An experienced builder/CFI would be a huge selling point in my opinion.....
Desmon keep doing what you have been doing.
We all know that you know more about their machines then the guys who are building them here in the U.S......

I think that is one of the good things that silverlight (american Ranger) is doing,
They have a very experienced gyro guy that became a CFI, and they have some experienced gyro builders
helping with assembly, other than that i don't know any details,

And in AutoGyros defense, if the aircraft is sold as a "kit" they have no way to check to make sure of the competence of the builder/assembler.

It would be useful to know what specific corrections were made to the "bad builds." Might give folks something to look for if they were about to climb into one.

And yes...just went you get something designed fool-proof, we seem to find better fools.

Great observation

I posted this in the other unhappy forum getting ball rolling with questions we need to ask. Bummer cause I had to thank Steve, the grim reaper because he was helpful. But then I'd thank the devil if he never really helped.

I think it time we try and find out what is happening and I like anyone who has had an accident to contact PRA with a statement. We will not publish your name if you do not wish but would send them to AutoGyro as they have the resources to look into this.
We would also like to have any of the mechanic who inspected them afterwards or repaired them to describe any building flaws in the home builts.

I have some question and please add your own.
Is the same thing happening anywhere else in the world?
What is the differences, between here and elsewhere?

1. In the US the are self built. Is it assembly differences from the factory built?
2. Could it be the sight picture of the side by side = and some different training pilots receive in other countries where this is not
3. happening in the same #'s and there are more Cavalons flying?
4. Is the pilot new to gyros or new to this type
5. How many hours has the pilot in gyros and this type
6. Has the pilot completed his training
7. Was this accident during training
8. Weather - temp, wind, cross wind, humidity etc
9. Operating weight - close to MTOW ? Add in weather ?
10. Was there an in flight defect

PS:
Desmond it would be helpful if you would write up what you've seen and send it to me so PRA can publish and report to AutoGyro?

I have discussed this stuff multiple times with autogyro. They do not respond well. The last time was 4 months ago with the new manager. However there might be hope. I have fixed close to 20 machine with all sorts of problems most to do with improper flight control systems and engine tuning. I have posted these threads befor only to be blasted and threatened by autogyro dealers. I might start calling the FAA to have them deal with these clowns.
I never blow smoke on this stuff and can back up every problem with documents. Still people like Camie and others blast me for trying to be safe. And I never name people except her in and posts. To her defense I have not found problems with her stuff.

Again looks like the "pride of ownership" has clouded the minds of those that might be helped....

Thanks for the rest of the story.
From AutoGyro's uninformed opinion of your reasons and or experience to point out these things one person voice may be dismissed.

I feel PRA or any organization with a audience of their customers could apply / ask for assistance in discovering the problems in their products that we have documented with higher than normal accidents in the United States that do not seem to be occurring in the same numbers in the rest of the world.

We would write something better but you get the idea.
If you agree I would like to have all the documentation I can get and we will leave your name out of it if you wish.
Just want the real fact to at least be know to them and ask for their help and offer boots on the ground here with interviews with witnesses.

You the one can make a difference as you have been posting all along and PRA has noticed and is willing to back you up!

Some one said they think they train better in Europe!

I do not think its that they train any better. We have some of the best CFIs in the world. However we also have some that are not very good at all.
Statistically Cavalons have a much higher learning curve then average just like an RAF. They are much more challenging to fly. They are heavier and do not land very easy. If you do not get quality landings down very clean profile flying you will struggle with them. They world wide have a higher accident rate then tandem machines. If you have these issues with poor training or just students that do not want to train or transition to the new aircraft you have problems. If you then add a bad build if thats the case then you have an even bigger problem.

For some reason in the USA Gyro people sometimes think that just because they have a rating they can fly every model made.
This is never the case in a fixed wing world. You always get checked out in any new aircraft or a refresher in one you already fly if you are not current.

​​​​​​​This seems not to transfer to gyro people.

John they would know it was from me but look on both forums one big post was about my list of build problems. I got total hell for that last year.

Thank you Bro that tells the tail and make sense. I always get checkout in each FW I transitioned into.
I did look for your post on RWF but it cannot go to the post.

Well.......I fly a Cavalon......and I'll tell you......it's not a gyro for a beginner!

The tip overs are because this model will not tolerate any slop on landing........the other issue I have with the machine is the take off procedure......too many are pulling her off early and accelerating in ground effect......just behind the power curve.

No tail wheel and lots of side area makes crosswind landings challenging for the low time pilots.

I get a lot of people wanting a Cavalon cuz they're sleek and comfortable.......
I try to inform them of all its shortcomings.....but just cuz ya gots money.....doesn't mean ya gots brains!!

It's a nice machine for traveling......but not for a low time gyro pilot.

This is a pic of the one that just went down sunday. Looks like low and slow and dropped it in hard in a field. Broken landing gear.

https://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/rotor ... short-list

This is one of the topics i started that got dealers bashing me and threats!!! Calls from autogyro and on and on.

This is exactly the information we are looking for from the experts we trust!!!!
I'm on this now. Will compile all the info I can find and contact AutoGyro president by phone. Let him know PRA's concerns and what are doing about it. Which will be right now more training for a more complex machine as above and Desmond's post too combined as one.
And warning that transitioning to a more complex unforgiving Gyroplane you need instruction.
It will get better with your help, this is just a start.

Thank you Jon as always I can count on you!!!! U-ROCK!