Yeah, y'all prolly sick of hearing me say it... but gyros are the BEST flying machines...

and the WORST ground machines.... especially even worse at any speed faster than you can run..... they are so top heavy and susceptible to camber, ruts, soft ground, long grass etc (gopher holes)....

IMO, a gyro should be on the ground as short a time as possible on takeoff.... and as I have said before... either 3 wheels on the deck......

or 3 wheels off..... to me, doing your 'balancing on the mains' for the length of the strip.... over and over.... is asking for a roll over...

just my opinion.... if I find a gyro too easy to balance on the mains.... I will move the mains back a bit so the nose wheel might pop of'.76798600 of a second before the mains...

but that is the maximum.... so there..... take that

You have to remember that I usually took off from unprepared strips.... I have had a gyro almost sidewards on takeoff with mud coming off the mains (messy ) and even when I have been at airports with sealed runways, I used the grass either side of the runway if it was available.... mainly because grippy surfaces and 3 wheeled, high CofG vehicles (a guro on the ground) is VERY prone to tipping over (at speed)

You are just weird (news flash) I do not like having the nose wheel on the ground on rough strips, I want to get the nose off and get the blades loaded up fast and spend less time on the bumpy stuff.

I don't think it has anything to do with the gyro - just the pilot. Of course lots of it is training and skill. If you watch Greg Spicola land a gyro, whether it's a Eurotub or not, he lands them the same, slow.
Particularly with the MTO without the tailwheel, trying to land very slow may land up scratching the frame on the tarmac, which one prefers not to do. With Gabor's wonderful tailwheel on the gyro, that's become a non-issue

Learning to balance on the mains does entails some risk, but I think it's helpful (if not essential) to get a feel for controlling the gyro at those two most critical times, liftoff and touchdown, when for some period of time, every time, the gyro will be a two-wheeled aircraft. Should be done under ideal conditions of course, especially at first, but if you can't balance on the mains then every takeoff and landing is going to have at least a split second, maybe more, where the pilot is not in control of the aircraft. I agree with Scottie Muz, you are weird.

We like you being a weird fuck Muz....that's with all the love I can muster

Yes, I cant argue with that....I am very weird.... but as I say, I rarely took off from prepared strips with no camber ..... the rotors can be loaded equally quickly with 3 wheels on the ground Where a FW MUST lift the nosewheel to change the angle of attack of the wing.... a gyro can have 3 wheels on the deck and change the angle of attack of our 'wing'.... the rotor disk... with the stick

I am not saying I am right and everyone else is wrong.... just saying what has worked for me....

I haven't even mentioned that everyone else is wrong.... and I am right (maybe y'all can read minds tho?)

I have seen people run off perfectly good sealed runways because of holding the nosewheel off on takeoff, due to the crown of the runway running them one side or the other.... I have seen them wreck on beaches, running with the camber into the surf....

So, y'all do what you like and I will stick with a linked nosewheel and keep it on the ground until all 3 are ready to come off

Speaking of weight on nosewheels, when I test flew Sam's (Titanium Sam) gyro, it was hang tested for him and I was about 70# heavier than him.... the main wheels would be off before the nosewheel ... I could come in like landing let the nosewheel on but the mains off and do the wheelbarrow thing along the grass strip

Edit: You have to remember too... not all take offs can be straight where I usually had to take off from.... if you have to make a few turns around things on the takeoff run... you want the nosewheel on the ground that's for sure

Just to be clear, I am not saying that the perfect way to take off is after an extended period of wheel balancing. I agree, during the time that the nose wheel is up is a potentially unstable and dangerous time, but nevertheless it is something every gyro landing and takeoff has to go through, no matter how brief. Therefore it is important that every gyro pilot is able to control this phase, again, no matter how brief. Almost every accident on takeoff and landing, including PIO's etc can be traced back to lack of control during this phase. Even with your method of takeoff, the weight on the nose wheel decreases, even if it only clears the ground a moment before the back wheels. So wheel balancing control actually starts the moment one starts accelerating and the weight on the nose wheel starts to lighten. To me wheel balancing does not mean doing a wheelie down the runway, it's about controlling the weight shift that occurs as one accelerates down the runway. Even with your takeoff method, you are really wheel balancing, except you control the front wheel from actually lifting, but probably the weight on it is zero just before lift off before the weight is zero on the rear wheels. Really about controlling the pressure on the stick as this happens.
So I think there is value to a learning gyro pilot to learn about this phase, and train to be in control during this phase. The safest way to do this is to learn and practice wheel balancing under controlled conditions, so that the pilot understands what is happening during this transition from three wheels, to nose wheel getting light, to two wheels, to no wheels and back again. For me safe landings and takeoffs were mostly about control of the nose wheel.

Well said Lofty!

Nothing against what you are saying Muz, just it seems like the rotors load faster with the nose wheel off the ground.

It is all just discussion, because what works for one design of machine, may not work for another..... I have had situations where the nosewheel hasn't been able to be used and has to be lightened, once at Coonabarabran (in New South Wales) I landed at a strip that was so muddy after rain... the mud clogged the front wheel ... so it stopped and skidded... so of course the nosewheel had to have all possible weight off of it.... same if taking off on long or long wet grass... but that is not the usual dry, flat, hard ground takeoff. Design comes into it again in short takeoffs on windy days... I have had my foot on the ground and lifted the nosewheel when sitting stationary into the wind to get the rotors going harder before moving... and you have to remember, all of my machines have been HTL like my turbo one.... I have not flown a dominator style gyro.... and I can imagine it would be a good idea not to have excessive weight on the long nose leg of one of them on rough ground.

And again, you have to remember, I was landing and taking off from paddocks and scrub that was so short, had to do a run into the wind, turn around, run back with the wind, turn back into the wind... and repeat until over the hump.... then go on maybe the 5th turn around.... other fields I would have to follow the fence line and turn on the ground during the takeoff run. I never had prerotator until I started using DW's and then only car starter prerotators...

Lofty, a gyro flown like a gyro should land without turning a wheel... or, should I say, with a landing roll of about a yard. Landing a gyro faster than walking speed is asking for a roll over as well... same as taxying fast and turning.... may as well get your wallet out and throw it....

I reckon gyros flown like gyros should be suffer less damage than gyros flown like fixed wings...

This yellow canopy machine bent its nosewheel leg in the sort of mud I am talking about... if you don't get the nosewheel light, the mud sticks in the fork and suddenly the front wheel don't turn

Very exciting, I would imagine

Edit: That is why I never ran spats/wheel pants....

I like to get the nosewheel off the ground as soon as possible for two main reasons:

1. A lot of gyros (Air Command/Dominator/Bensen) get really flippy over about 15mph when steering with the nosewheel.

2. Some gyros have a nosewheel that is not structurally designed to go over 15mph on the ground.

It also follows that the steeper the rotor angle, the more wind can hit it, but I am more concerned with breakage, "flip-over-age," and breakage that may lead inevitably to flip-over-age. Granted, a lot of the new machines "like" having their nosewheel on the ground longer, but they don't break if you get the nose up sooner than later. I prefer to keep my practiced habits in the "won't break whatever I'm in," category.

Just my opinion...and worth at least twice what it costs you here.

And this from a guy who fly's a 'bulldozer' ?

Aint the free world wonderful.... we can agree to disagree

Like, I can agree that y'all are wrong, then turn off my computer so y'all cant disagree

I would think that landing in mud would be a no-no.....or get bigger tires!

Hey.... a Canadian cub

I named it for my original tendency to "overbuild" many of the components. In the original configuration, it was nearly too heavy to fly. This is the original tail art image:

So Jon,

I take it you are very happy with your new Tango?

How do u feel that re-drive unit is holding up and any signs it won't have a failure.

My meaning is if that redrive and gearbox setup prove to be durable and reliable that will open these Yamaha 3 cyls. to all kinds of gyro configurations and make it a more widely used engine package.

The latest Yamaha engines are very sweet and I would like to use one if and when I get a two place whatever gyro it ends up being.