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 So what about this 
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Will this fly; safe and stable if one engine goes?


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Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:35 pm
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Oh my! It sure seems like tiny little engines on that thing.
I would say if the front one goes it probably would still fly as a pusher.
Not if the back quits. There is no way it would be able to pull with that huge flat surface being behind not letting the air pass.
I have seen Tim Blacksmith's ???? tractor never make it in the air.

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Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:43 pm
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Gabor wrote:
Oh my! It sure seems like tiny little engines on that thing.
I would say if the front one goes it probably would still fly as a pusher.
Not if the back quits. There is no way it would be able to pull with that huge flat surface being behind not letting the air pass.
I have seen Tim Blacksmith's ???? tractor never make it in the air.


Not so much the huge flat surface Nabs... if just the front engine were running... the rudder would have no authority what soever. I have never seen any of the open tractors fly... one of the guys built one here and could just get off the ground.... but it was a horror to fly

I would rather one reliable engine than that...no HS .... and it is idling both engines, but doesnt appear to have brakes? No wheel chocks..... :noidea

Pretty risky :laughing :yoda2 :Wolvie

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Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:33 am
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I see zip ties on the back axle.


Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:46 am
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:rofl :laughing


Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:50 am
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I would say if the front one goes it probably would still fly as a pusher.
Not if the back quits. There is no way it would be able to pull with that huge flat surface being behind not letting the air pass.

This is not a criticism, but something to think about. I will admit that I don't have the answer but I am sure we will get numerous opinions on this.

I understand your point about the air blasted backwards being interrupted, but is that really an aerodynamic factor that impacts the propeller's ability? Does a propeller need to move air backwards to generate lift (or pull in the case of a propeller).

The propeller is an airflow spinning such that there is relative wind that generates a low pressure area in front of the propeller which would pull the propeller forward. This has nothing to do with the air pushed backwards. An airplane wing generates lift without pushing air downward. So does a gyroplane's auto-rotating rotor. It does not push air downward, yet it generates the upward pull to carry the weight of the machine.

When an airplane is stationary on the ground, the propeller throws a lot of air backwards. But, is this a result of the propeller not moving forward through the air because the aircraft is stationary on the ground? In flight, the air thrown backwards would certainly be diminished by the forward speed of the aircraft.


Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:10 pm
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Airplanes normally have noses to divert the flowing air around the cowling.
This thing is like a brick wall. Not much aerodynamics to it.
If the air is not allowed to freely flow through the prop it sure reduces its performance.
There is a pressure it has to overcome.
Since the middle of the prop has the least amount of airflow through the nose of the airplane isn't much of a resistance.
That gyro has the edges of the prop blocked where majority of the air is supposed to flow through.
So yes it is a bad bad idea. Too close to disperse without losing efficiency.
I have had a good talk with Tim Blackwell and his experiments were just simply eye opening on the loss of efficiency due to large surface blocking the free flow of the prop wash.
That is why pushers are so popular even though we can cover up to 40% of the prop's surface up bu sitting in front of it, the prop can pull air from all around.
Once you block it though....it's like intake and exhaust of an engine.
Cover up the exhaust and see what happens...... :noidea
I am also learning from others who have tried it. :half
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Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:43 pm
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Now this one has a chance!


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Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:50 pm
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The reason pusher gyros work so well, is the prop blowing on the tail at high throttle and low airspeed.... :like

A tractor gyro needs a fuselage that allows the prop blast to reach the tail... and they generally have some form of twin tail.... Without a streamlined fuse, at slow airspeed and high prop thrust, you really have no rudder authority at all.... I have seen/heard of about 6 open tractor gyros, Murray Barker from Caboolture over here gave up on his... the transition from ground to takeoff was scary because of the lack of tail control.... the others I have seen or seen pics, but you never see them fly :noidea Is there any youtube of an open tractor actually flying? (regularly) I know people have lifted off with them, Murray did a few hops in his... then he gave up on it. :realcrazy :badluck

I still wouldnt leave a gyro running, even with brakes on as the cables zip tied to the rear legs suggests... I have seen 2 machines get away and crash into trees and stuff in the old hand start days... even with brakes on :badluck :yoda2 :Wolvie

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Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:34 pm
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To be sure Muz, I would never leave it running unattended, dont trust chocks either.


Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:33 am
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ASRA over here has made a 'rule' to cover stupidity.... it is against regs here in :OZ to start a gyro without someone in the seat (who knows how to shut it down)

Like, you cant put your 2 year old kid in the pilot seat :laughing

Goes to show how gyros have changed.... imagine trying to swing a prop by hand... from the pilot seat, if you are alone?

All of the regs have changed now tho, we used to park the gyros right next to the 'spectators' .... as soon as you shut down, someone would tap you on the shoulder to get your attention, then reach up and stop the rotors for you.... if you said 'I'm going for a fly" you would get the nod from someone, you climb in after your preflight and buckle up.... your mate would swing the prop, then give the rotors a shove for you.... and I would do the same for others..... we always taxy (once out of the parking area) with the rotors turning... even ASRA still recommends that even today... none of this taxying with the rotors stopped rubbish.... unless it was a real strong tail wind, I would have my rotors up to speed nearly on the taxy out.... Gyro flying used to be a very social activity... now, you just see the gyro start up from a distance and taxy away with the rotors stopped.... they go out of sight... then a few minutes later you see them take off way in the distance (if you are lucky) :badluck where people used to be excited to come and see us fly, they would be very close to the gyros taking off... and we would land withing eyesight... so people (spectators) could hear the rotors pounding and doing thier thing... alot of people became pilots themselves after hearing that and seeing the gyros in action... :like :pop

Now, a pilot will be fined if there is anyone is within 30 meters of a gyro when it starts.... it is against regs to start it without someone in it... it changed after a young pilot started his enclosed 2 seat side by side whilst standing next to it... it was efi and had too much throttle and it ran him over and chopped him to pieces before pinning him to a ute (what was left of him) :badluck :realcrazy :puke3 :yoda2 :Wolvie

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Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:49 am
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Hs anyone actually seen a tractor (open) fly regularly? Are there any in your clubs that just go on flights with the pusher guys?

I dont mean if anyone has seen one do a hop once... :noidea :pop :wol2 :Wolvie

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Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:52 am
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