In Australia now we are 'strongly advised' (as in dont phucking do it) to not slip in a gyro, like on approach?

Shit.... that rules out all of my landings

I think that my problem is I flew them 'raw' with no nothing.... no instruments other than a piece of string and a hall ASI coz I had to.... I see gyros as toys.... they use alot of gas, they are not particularly fast in airplane talk.... but crikey, you can have some fun in them....


Yes, they can be made pretty.... but with pretty comes weight.... weight is not a gyros friend.... yes, they can be made to do cross country flights quite comfortably, if you dont mind the shake and taking a while.... but where gyros shine, in my book, is barnstorming the home strip or going to nearby local strips and annoying them as well....

am a very sharing person.... I like to annoy everyone equally

[quote="MadMuz"]In Australia now we are 'strongly advised' (as in dont phucking do it) to not slip in a gyro, like on approach?

Shit.... that rules out all of my landings


[/quote

So my question here is that the main difference between the barnstormer gyros you fly and the Eurotubs, is the tub itself is it not?
Remove the tub and you can slip, add the tub and you add a variable component of side force on the aircraft that can destabilize the aircraft, which also is really impossible to create one fixed centre of pressure as it will vary with degree of side slip. Etc.
(BTW Muz - the panty knickers aircraft kit is set for pickup on March 25th, stay tuned)

Thats right Lofty... aerodynamically,the side on profile of a tub compared to an open, is like a billboard

So, if you turn side on then stick to the direction you are actually travelling, suddenly there is the drag of the billboard and the rotor drag disappears... so, over you go

Whereas, with an open gyro, turn it side on, there is about the same amount of drag as going frontwards

I guess what irritates me about all of this, is that the euro gyros have come along and taken over the gyro scene... now the rules made to stop people rolling them in balls are affecting how I am supposed to fly?

It is like if I am in a motorcross club.... ad being restricted by rules for touring road bikes....

To me, the simplest solution, would be call the euro/plastic division 'gyroplanes' and they can be flown like fixed wings and have all of the neccessary BS ..... and call basic machines 'gyrocopters' and we can be recognised as being a different machine altogether

The reality is, a basic and a clone have about as much in common as a beach buggy and an F1 car.... and they are both great things (for what they are designed for)

yaw, I agree.

Trixy phucked it up for all!
That piece of shit started falling out of the sky and doing back flips due to it's enormous side surface area that is rather flat then round.
No other Eurogyro has that much flat side surface.

The Trixy is wrongly designed honestly. I saw it in Germany and it was very clear it did not have enough tail for its area in the front.

Any so called Euro style gyro can be safely slipped within reason. There is a speed that you need to be below and it needs have correctly proportioned tail (no Trixy apparently). This speed is usually close to the approach speed 50 to 55 knots. You should not slip them above that speed like at 80 knots. Secondly slip them opposite to the side than torque roll is better. There is no problem coming in to land in a slip. Its almost a requirement for a crosswind landing. Your rule there seems a bit ridiculous.

And BTW, the so called open gyroplanes can be slipped sideways all over but keep in mind they are usually not going any faster than 55 or 60 knots anyway. So one has to take that into consideration too. But I got to agree with you MadMuz, many of the new gyroplanes are being flown much like a fixed wing. It would be better if they were flown like a gyroplane. Many of the new owners are ex fixed wing pilots and a lot of the training from new instructors is also well a bit lacking. We can learn a lot from fixed wing curriculums and even design but there are key differences and they should be emphasized. I think gyroplane can be safer than fixed wings if flown properly within their own and not like a fixed wing. Most of the accidents are flip over and that points to exactly what you are saying.

100% agreed Abid. This whole bashing has no other agenda but trying to slow the evident interest and large number of sales that are overtaking the once dominant gyromarket.
For 20 years the American automakers did the soapbox cars because they were too stupid to keep up with the world.
Japan came in and killed Detroit.
I am not sure of the numbers for the Dominator sales but I would dare to assume they are down!
Agenda agenda agenda what's driving the slamming of the Eurogyros.
I still get a stiffy when I see a good HOMEBUILT!!!!!!!!!!
So I ain't just talking. But then again the invasion has been pretty damn successful and aside the damn Trixy the rest are pretty damn good gyros flying huge number of hours.

Hey Gabor: Long time no see.
I am not sure about Dominator sales but I know they are very very few. I doubt though that the person who goes to buy a Euro style gyroplane has any interest in something like a Dominator. There may be some overlap I am sure but for the most part its a different customer. I have flown in 2 seat Dominators as early as 2004. If those were the gyroplanes out there, I wouldn't be into gyroplanes and actually I didn't go into them at that time. That is not because I think they are unsafe. Well actually I did think that in 2004 but I do not now but its a gyro for gyro's sake. Machines for flying that are designed with pilot's in mind should be designed for pilots. Ergonomics, comfort, utility should all be considered in the design and that is what differentiates one from the other and also why the customer base can be different.
I actually wish Dominator business the best in business. People who start there may very well at some point want to go do some adventurous cross country and then they will consider these other style gyroplanes. I do not see any negative in growing market share for them or these style gyroplanes. It makes the pool larger.

Homebuilts are great but even the homebuilts do not need to be all like one way. The gyroplane market has not matured in the US yet. There is still a perception problem of safety. It needs to change.
The invasion as you call it I guess started with Magni to the US but somehow Magni has never been able to capitalize. May be the cost versus value is not there. May be the form is not quite so pleasing, just falls a little short or may be the control pressures are just a little bit too much. Who knows bu for some reason Magni should have done better way early on and it did not.
I am keeping ur AR-1 prices very competitive in hopes of getting further market share within the US and Canada. And because I am able to make good profit even at steady prices I have by manufacturing completely in house beyond the engine and avionics. Got to stay away from doing one offs though. Those can cause havoc and kill profit.

I do not think the customer coming to us from anecdotal experience ever looks at a Dominator so they should not be worried. Overlap is there I am sure but its not much.

My opinion on the dominator and long leg clt machines is that they are awesome in the air.... but I would be extremely nervous taxying one at any speed on the ground, especially rough ground

Wheras my HTL low Cf G machine could turn off a runway onto a taxyway at 20mph (as long as you flew the rotor in respect to the wind) I never had a main wheel lift in a corner....

Our governing body in Australia, ASRA wants all new homebuilts between 2" HTL and CLT... but I refuse to comply with that.... I have flown mostly 8" - 10" HTL machines.... I will try for 5" minimum... a gyro with a higher thrustline will normally have a lower CofG... which would be a little taxy friendly compared to a high seating Dom...

To me, it doesnt matter what you fly, all you have to do is UNDERSTAND what it will do in different situations (fast taxying and turning or pio)

It is like on a motorbike.... if you are doing 50mph and need to go around a left hand bend...... dont lean right.... if you lean right instead of left, you will fall off

If you have a HTL machine, you need to fly it differently.... and taxy it differently than a Dom style and vic verca

I used to drive a fork lift at work for many years.... I would ride a motorbike to work, drive the fork during the day, then ride home ..... that doesnt mean that motorcycles and forklifts should be ridden/driven the same and make up rules to do so?

If someone flies a pilates turbine single, then a twin engine piston plane.... there is no effort made to make the 2 machines fly the same? You just have to learn to fly both how they need to be flown.... end of story.

If someone has a euro tub and a Dominator, they will soon realise that what works for one, wont work for the other

Just know and respect what you are flying right now is the key IMO

BTW, Abid... my EA81 turbo DD open machine could do 95 kts.... no one could believe how fast it was..... it was just very important not to open your mouth.... it was automatic 'fish face' if you did

Just so the myth is debunked about Eurogyros not being agile or stable enough to do tricks that tall tail ones can do here is something for your viewing pleasure.
Looks good to me.....but what do I know?

That was some nice easy flying... looked great, I was hoping it would do some stunts tho?

I noticed when he did turnbacks how he didnt fly back into his own smoke trail, but prolly 50' to the side of it.... because of the extra weight it does eveything slower... and when you see the front bob up and down nearing the end, that showed to me, how stable those tri tails are.... if that had been an RAF with no HS, it would have been upside down for sure

You can watch a stunt show with motorcross bikes, with big road bikes, with cars, pickups or F-350's or even double deck busses....and they can each be very impressive for what they are, as long as you dont expect the double deck bus to do what the motorcross bike can do....

That doesnt make the display of a double deck bus less impressive than the display on the motorcross bike.... whatever is being pushed close to its envelope (without crashing) is a good display.

That is why I keep saying... the ideal is to have a barnstorming open frame for sheer fun around a local strip.... plus a tub of some description for touring with your mates..... one gyro cant do it all

Edit: Euro tubs are TOO stable to be overly agile (for a gyro) which makes them great for cross countries and although you can barnstorm the home strip, they are not able to be thrown around like a more basic, open lightweight machine.... it depends what you want your particular gyro type to do.... If you want to go on cross countries most of the time, dont get a basic bensen.... if you only want to barnstorm your local area, you dont need a euro tub....

Dang My hopes are dashed, Now not only can I not afford a touring gyro, but I would have to buy ANOTHER gyro for barnstorming!
Thanks Muz.....

OK I admit. To me those were stunts and anything beyond those I call suicidal tendency.
Maybe I am old....those moves however did completely satisfy the demonstration of the ability and puts the "NO SLIP" in the Eurotub cause ya gonna fukking die crowd!
Impressive slip and more than anyone should ever use was shown pretty safely in my estimate.

Well no eurotub will ever be able to slip like Steve M in the black!!


Again, it is flying the aircraft within it's design envelope...Gyros can do loops too......but probably not a prudent maneuver unless you are Jim Vannek.

Yeah well if you look at the main entrance of SportCopter you'll see a cutout in the door jamb for the handles of the wheel barrel he carries his balls in!!!!!

About 4:05 into this video He loops it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ezED2OtR_A