No no no no no!!!!
OK one more time....man....when you practice your engine outs with no wind you are NOT using freaking gauges OK?
NO NO NO.
So you are going to learn to take off and land by side view.
So now you can shoot the freaking engine out 9 out of 10.
You are with me right?
I covered the instruments with a rubber flap.
So here comes the wind. Head wind for that matter.
You keeping your well practiced gliding attitude will take you freaking over that spot guaranteed.
Don't bring into it speed and all.
He never said anything about that!

Yeah right, remember when you couldn't see the airspeed.
Engine out I still have an Airspeed indicator. When I have an engine out - first thing is best glide of 55, and then choose a landing spot. After that I fuck with the pitch and IAS, faster slower to hold short, extend my glide etc, etc.
Honestly, unless I'm looking at my GPS and calculating the difference between ground speed and IAS, I have no idea what the windspeed is unless I can see a windsock or something like it. What I do know is that if I pull the throttle or engine out, hold 55 and descend to the ground, I will land closer from where the engine goes out or I pull the throttle if the wind is a strong headwind than if I am facing with the wind and therefore have a tailwind. And yes I understand that as I get closer to the ground that because of gradients that headwind may decrease or the tailwind may decrease and I will have to alter my planned landing point or change my pitch accordingly to compensate.
As I read Birdy's comment, I understand that it is the gradient that changes the degree of headwind or tailwind that is key to what he is describing. And the point he makes makes sense if you keep the emphasis on gradient. It does not apply if the headwind or tailwind are unchanged from the beginning of your descent till ground level.

I've been communicating ON A REGULAR AND FREQUENT BASIS with Ozzies ! (30 yrs)

And I THOROUGHLY BELIEVE that sometimes it can be INTERESTING !!

Good Luck understanding everything the Birdman writes !

fj

Fick U, Muzman, BTW

fj

Hint: when i have a head wind my ground speed is less when i have a tail wind my ground speed is more. Air speed being the same.

I am sorry, but I must totally disagree!!

FJ is wrong! OK He is just, wrong

Fick him....

Exactly! How did I land your gyro from the back seat?
Besides being shitty?
By the side view I am used to.
What had happened?
I forced the machine hit the number but our ground speed had to increase in order to make the number 30!
If I were to land with the same glide angle but recommended glide speed I would have had to start over the freaking 17-92 in order to make the number!!!!!
You see???

So....it looks like we are all in agreement. You will not glide as far into the wind and you will glide farther with the wind.

That has always been my understanding and experience, I can't speak for Gabor. Maybe he agrees, I just can't be sure.
As I said, what got me confused is that Birdy's statement seemed to imply the opposite - it does not, as he is speaking of gradients specifically and how they effect headwinds or tailwinds and therefore change the glide as one descends through them. I get it, I learned something from Birdy.

LOL sure. I agree too. For some reason we understand things differently.
To me it was obvious what he was saying.
Maybe I am an OZ deep inside......
I have to revert to pictures.....
Damn you English speaking bastards!
Fick you FJ.

That's what Lofty and have been trying to say all along isn't it?


It is exactly the same only completely different, how when we hover and its windy we blow away and when we hover and its not windy.... we stay there.... right?

Time to sing Koombayah!
Gabor, Larry and I will be at the hangar today. I am doing my 100 hour.

Someone on rwf has realised that birdy got it arse about now

That's good Jeff.... what does the 100 hourly entail? anything scheduled other than a real good look over and change filters and stuff? Make sure you look at your mast welds

LOL I was not done!
I have taken the vectors and transposed them into keeping the practiced landings in no wind condition and this is what he meant. I can't speak for him but this is how I meant the overshooting
You guys are gay!
ROFLMAO
Muz fick you too.
Learn fucking Hungarian damn it!

Looks more like hovering to me

Can we talk about crack whores now?

Madmuz....Yes...you are spot on as well. If you are flying into a strong enough wind, you will "appear" to have your gyro mimic what helicopter can do without any wind.

Hey....while we are kicking the bees nest....lets start the downwind turn debate that always brings a good laugh of aerodynamic understanding......or lack of it! ha

You guys all have a great day!

I am going to be hovering over a stairway in my shop. I sure hope someone doesn't open the doors and let the wind in....I may under shoot my stair landing by coming down a steeper approach!

It depends what sort of downwind turn you are talking about? If you are talking a nice slow 30 degree fixed wing type turn , apart from being boring as hell, will prolly suffer some interference (loss of lift) from the eveeeeeeeeeentual tail wind.... however, if you turn your gyro, like a gyro (60 degrees minimum) it doesn't matter which way the wind is going because you are instantly going along with it and up to speed again in 3.5465456465466 seconds Downwind turns are fine in a gyro, as long as it has adequate power, and you have a sensible amount of altitude when you do it...... besides, what I cant work out about all of these fixed whinger gyrocopter pilots, is if you do a downwind turn in a gyro that still has its motor going..... if you decide that was a bad idea, just do another 180 and you are upwind again? How simple is that

Same as running into the end of a box canyon, how can you in a gyro you just turn around "wow, I can see the end of the box canyon about half a mile ahead what should I do?" by the time you even thought that, I would be going back the other way already Fly a phucking gyro like a gyro..... or save yourself the drama and buy a phucking fixed wing!

Here's a good one to argue about.... if you are cruising along at 70 kts and you want to do a big fat honkin' steep turn to the right (or a U turn 180 yank and bank style), you actually do a wee little turn to the left first

WELL SAID STAN!!!

I had to throw in my !!!

QUOTE=JEFF TIPTON;598384]

Did you mean instead that a headwind would cause an undershoot and that a tailwind will cause an overshoot?[/QUOTE]

I will NEVER forget this landing ...on one of my last lessons with Desmon ... the KEWK runway was under re-construction ... we were aiming to clear the north end being reworked & there was a big black powercable across the end of the useable runway .... Desmon let me initiate the descent where I figured looked about right ( he DID say " are you SURE???") ... but the wind was a LOT stronger than I was used to ... all the way down .... so I was well short of my aim-point ...luckily I'd aimed well up the useable runway & we skimmed over that cable by about 2 feet ... talk about seat-pucker!!! [/b]

YEP ... I was scratching my head on Birdy's post for a bit ... as I clearly remember a time with my instructor when I was in a strong headwind on landing approach & it lasted all the way to the runway ... causing a good undershoot!

When I re-read ... I saw the wind gradient effect how if one sets up for a strong headwind ... that suddenly goes away in the last 50 ft alt. .... you will float further & overshoot!

Good : Birdy ... keep 'em use'n the ole noggin!

:

Crayons are the best tool for communication....colorful and straight to the point.
Does that make crayons ?

Muz what about the crackhoe story?