So I know flying is all about making smart decisions, but at the same time how does one improve one's skills without pushing the envelope? Today it was blowing 10-12, gusting 18-20 at about 040. I decided to fly. First did some wheel balancing on the taxiway with winds almost straight down the taxiway, then switched to runway 5 with a 10 degree crosswind. All went well, got to practice some takeoff's and landings into strong winds. Seems like this is something one needs to do, despite the element of risk.

The only way to gain experience is to push the envelope.
You can learn these things only by experience.
There is no other way.
Good for you.
Don't mess up the Orange....I need something to do my wheelie with

Jeff- That's what I always called it....expanding my envelope. I would build on previous experience with smaller envelope, then would expand my envelope and give myself permission to go explore the larger envelope.

It's better this way than to just go flying one day with much more challenging conditions...and wish you had built up slowly to it.

Training is everything!! Good pilot ethnics and decision making is also everything. I operate outside the velocity curve more now than ever, due to where I live and now what I can do to have fun. We all know the dangers of doing so. Its nice to expand, butt use your training and always keep it in you head at all times. Flying low in rough terrain will result in a bad outcome. Always keep a spot to go to in case of an emergency, even if it not a good one. One bad spot is better than none in a crunch. I'm sure that's what Michael has just experienced. Thanks to his training and good pilot skills Michael has it paid off. They are both alive and will recover. We all take that chance to advance!!!!

really good post guy thanks

Here's my 2012 flight with Michael. Excellent pilot and great instructor. Speedy recovery my friend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KCQOP9GzdM

Practice is good, I used to fly in all conditions too.... it might be fine weather when you leave your strip, but the weather/wind might be terrible when you get back, or get where you are going

One thing that confuses me tho, is all of this 'balancing on the mains'? Until looking on US forums, I had never heard of it? It is something I have done, but not practicing for ages and doing lengths of the strip etc..... to me, a gyro is a flying machine, it is not meant to be on the ground for any longer than it takes to take off..... it should be on 3 wheels, or flying.... any in between should be limited as much as possible?

For me, the thought of the weather being 'blowy' or squally conditions.... the last thing I would be thinking of doing is 'balancing on the mains' in it.... I would want to get off the ground as soon as possible.... gyros don't tend to get damaged in the air.... usually on the ground..

Can someone explain what the balancing is for and what it is supposed to achieve? The only time I have done anything like it is in a real short takeoff, the ones where you get the machine to sit on its tail wheel with the stick right back, to get the rotors going as hard as possible before the takeoff roll begins.... other than that, it is 3 wheels on, or 3 wheels off unless you are going to horse it off early

I am not knocking it, by the way, just trying to understand why you guys seem so fascinated by it, the reason for it? When it started becoming such a desireable thing to do (who invented/started it?)

Bad parts will result in fast actions, be ready it will happens, it will when you least expect it.

Recovered more wrecks from the result of bad weather (that the pilot could of landed else where) Than mechanical failures.

I think the main benefit of balancing on the mains is to get a good feel for how how rotor speed, aircraft speed, power and nose position relate both on takeoff and landing. A little risky I agree, but I chose a taxiway which had the wind straight down the path of travel. My main reason for doing it was to get a feel for how quickly the nose wheel would come up and controlling it with winds of greater than 10 knots - in this case pretty fast with very little power required. For me the key thing on takeoff is anticipating when the nose wheel lifts and controlling it's position on takeoff. So yes maybe a little risky but I did mitigate the risk by choosing the taxiway first, then once I had a good feel for it switching to the main runway which had about a 15-20 degree crosswind component.
There are two key things that helped me in learning takeoffs and landings - anticipation of the nose wheel on takeoff, and looking down the runway on landing.

Other things I practiced yesterday is taxiing in strong winds, keeping the stick into the wind etc.

Balancing on the mains was a large part of the way people in the US trained themselfs
before there were 2 place machines.
It was the method that Igor Bensen, Ken Brock and others recommended.
Here is a example from Ken Brock
Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb8FmjIWvP0
Part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cx8oFQTWd4

Marian Springer seems to have learned that way if you read her book Born Free

Also it is recommended in the Bensen how to build it yourself and teach your self to fly manual.

Stan learned it that way. I am doing the same thing myself. Although I was signed off with 4 hours in the MTO I find it completely necessary for tail wheel landing gyros. Of course if you land the machine like an airplane it's a different ballgame.
I did however pay the price not having transitional training. I do believe if I did I could have probably saved my machine from the crash.
But I was just too busy with surviving it so technique didn't play in part of the outcome.
Anyways. I however am not big fan of crow hopping.
I have seen so many trying to straighten it out and forcing a landing on a disappearing runway and artificially creating panic.....
If you picked it up fly the damn thing.
You can always come back and level out at 5-6 feet and do the landing end of the "crow hop" ....well extended hop

I try not to mention my self training much...as today you can find instructors.

But I taxied up and down my dads runway for 3 weeks training myself by the Bensen manual. One day I was balancing on the mains....gave it a little more throttle...and all of a sudden I felt no ground vibration. I quickly looked at one of my tires and there was air underneath...I was flying! I decided to go fly for half a hour...then crash!

The biggest surprise was that there was no surprise at all! I ended up teaching myself to fly 4 of my gyros without training. If I were just now starting to fly gyros...I would definitely get training.

Stan,
Back in the day you had no choice but to self train.. That was the way is was, my uncle was the same way and finally flew Huey's in the Nam.. I also know you trained and got you rating in a R22 before you flew your Helicycle. Had you not had that real training I know of a least one incident maybe two you had that it could have had some really bad results. I know because I also speak for my miss fortunes I have had myself. Proper training is life saving.

I also self trained, there was no instructors around, so that was the only thing to do back then.... I only knew of benson as a name, had never read any manuals, I didn't know they existed.... So I just took photos of a machine and basically copied it.... and I met Quintin C, who was no longer flying gyros, he was building a Karatoo and also the BD5 jet, so he would tell me if I needed to change anything..... I have a lot of my self training on video... I was showing some to FJ while he was here.....

I either taxied with 3 wheels on the ground, or all of them off.... part of my initial self learning, I was horsing off and keeping the stick back.... trying to hold off with the stick and settling back on.... it was only after a phone call that I realised what I was doing wrong and after being told to get the stick forward and get some speed, that was the last taxying I did other than ground manouvering and takeoff rolls etc..... If on a takeoff roll (normal long strip) when the nose wheel came up, that was the indication it needed to be put back down again... if it came up again, stick needs to go forward.... then the machine took off 3 wheels same time..... On a short, short strip, in the wind (no prerotator) I would often sit into the wind and lift the nosewheel so the tail wheel was on the ground... when the rotors were right for taxying, just 3 wheels down with stick back, when they were really hooting, then power and stick 3/4 back, full power stick right back (horse off), once off the ground let the stick forward to get speed.... works fine for me..

I have taught (old style ground teaching) 4 people successfully to fly and none have ever taxied on the mains.... I never put myself in that position and would never recommend to anyone to do it either.... to me, that would be like teaching someone to ride a motorcycle, and tell them to go and do wheelies up and down the road? Sure, you can learn to do wheelies later on, but not learning to rode a bike?

A gyro is the same, either 3 wheels on or all of them off is safer... To taxi over and over, on the ground, length after length of the strip is inviting disaster IMO.... same as landing at speed like a fixed wing?? I have seen euro cabins land with a FW approach, long and flat approach touching down at 3okts and rolling to a stop in 200 yards?? It just looks so wrong a gyro is not made to go that fast on the ground? No wonder they run off runways and tip over?. But then, I am a bit weird my standard approach was about 45 degree from higher above the threshold and either a zero turn landing, or at a busy airport with spam cans, air taxy until clear of the strip.... the spam canners appreciated it, they have no tolerance for some gyro landing on 'their' strip and stopping flat....

Edit: Here in they have some funny ideas now too say you turn up with your machine, an instructor will prolly get you to leave the rotors off and taxi (on 3 wheels) up and down the strip Of all the things you can do to damage a gyro, short of the trailering to the strip.... driving it up and down the strip without its rotors on.... I cant think of a single thing worse for the frame, especially when it is beam axel or stiff suspension I am glad I am already signed off.... there is no way anyone will be running my machine up and down, up and down, up and down the strip

My biggest problem now, is I have to do a BFR in a eurotub (which I haven't flown before) to prove I can fly my stick machine?
how is that going to work out?

John- Of course I had helicopter training....and that flameout while I was doing a max performance takeoff found me at only 40 mph...150 feet high...and a flame out! Nothing to do but drop the collective and let the ground rush ip and pull the collective at the last second....then do a run on landing.

My first thought when that turbine quit was " I will walk away...but my machine will be destroyed". I was not able to flare and to my luck had enough grass to slide to a stop.

The 2nd flameout resulted in another fly it home afterward event. I called the factory and Doug Schwochert that day of the 2nd flameout and Doug was able to diagnose the problem and give me the solution over the phone. Just a turn of a screw, and it never flamed out again.

But to be honest, I became tired of risking my neck and an uninsured $65,000 toy.....and that was one reason of several others why I cashed out and sold it.

I had 4 years of event free flying after my 2 flameouts, and I was getting too complacent not ever finding anything to fix on it.

In my opinion, the Helicycle set the bar very high on minimal maintenance , and abundant power.

But in my case, my growing complacency was building up and it made me unconsciously unsettled each flight...to the point that if I continued this way, it was going to bite me someday.

Now I am very unlikely going to accidently shoot my self with my new direction in life.


But......I love seeing others chase their flying dream as it makes me reflect on my treasured memories of doing the same.
I am totally without regret getting out of flying.....and my family is now convinced of that also!

I would not trade my gyro and heli memories for anything. Nor will I want to ever give up what experiences I am having now being a surface dweller!

Love life in the air or on the ground!

Stan I can truly understand it. The more I spend on the ground the less I miss it.
Seriously. I thought this was just a myth. But it's not.
Ernie said it once "the thrill of the challenges of a build are much greater for me at this age of my life".
Would I shock you if I said that I just promised my wife to sell the Behemoth?
Well I did. So it will be sold soon. She was the happiest woman alive the moment I authored the words. I am sure you can sympathize with that.
I got to build a tractor and I need funds for the damn thing anyways.
I still enjoy flying don't get me wrong.
I just don't have the shake I used to 10 years ago when I started.
I was literally shaking of the anticipation of the thrill before I got into the helicopter.
And then it came the total calm that overcame me once in the air.
Peaceful and serine up amongst the clouds.
The times that I fly and flew I do cherish.
It's just not what it used to mean.
I also am learning not to be selfish and hopefully live long enough to be a very cool grandfather....

Gabor- Bless both our wives....they didn't inhibit our dreams to fly, but it seems both hid their concerns very well. Little subtle clues from Barbara that she hid so well....was she was apprehensive each time I flew, and I was increasing becoming that way myself.

Even if I never started getting uneasy feelings that dampened the experiences in my Helicycle, the guilt was increasing causing extra stress in our coming up golden years.

As I look back....I wish I would have sold it a year and half ago to the guy that was coming to take it home in 2 days.

I have no desire at this time to even ride in a gyro helicopter. I can disconnect as abruptly as I can connect!

I knew you'd understand. I never realized how much anxiety I have created for her......
I think I will still catch a ride here and there.....or we will see.
For now I am embarking on something that I need full concentration to do.
Like you with your shooting I have hundreds of things to pursue.
I am not leaving the rotor world. I just had to re-evaluate the "what if" scenario.....
As much as I hate to admit they are right.....bastards......aaaaaaanyways.
I'll probably have it up for sale on Bensen Days.
Last year I had this guy chasing me around wanting it......I shoulda sold it LOL.
I hope he comes back. He was talking high dollars too!!!!
If it doesn't sell I just put it up as a raffle ticket prize

That's fair enough, but just because I don't like annoying people (:lie ).... I will add that I always have had nosewheel coupled to the rudder pedals, but I have a bit of play and a long castering moment from the nosewheel pivot to the axel (trail) so if the nosewheel is a bit cocked off because I need rudder input,,,, and the nosewheel touches the strip at any speed, the nosewheel will caster into the direction of travel.... Added to this, if there is a grass option at any strip, I take it over sealed landing..... or I air taxy until clear of the strip, especially if there are spam cans also landing.... they don't like gyros to land and stop still (they whinge)

For me, there is no cross wind landing required, I will always turn into the wind on touchdown and at little ground speed.... it is only the takeoff roll at directional airstrips (no into wind across a paddock or something) I worry about crosswinds, so I just plan a short takeoff and get off the ground asap.... can horse off and level out for airspeed and climb once airspeed is gained..... My point is, The takeoff roll might start with the tail wheel on the ground (next machine I wont be able to put foot on ground) but once rotors are over the hump (or taxying to get them up to speed) I keep it on 3 wheels ..... once rotors are ready to go, I give it the beans, with 3 wheels on, stick back then go all 3 off at once (unless horsing off) ...... the last situation I want to find myself in, in a gyro is at speed on the main wheels only, having to rely on a tail for direction ..... with the nose wheel light on the ground or off the ground ..... no way.... bad place to be....

Each to their own, You can do it that way.... but I wont