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2 seat Aussie-Tub at Caboolture today
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Author:  MadMuz [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:06 am ]
Post subject:  2 seat Aussie-Tub at Caboolture today
I went to Caboolture to our hangar today as we put the magazines in the envelopes for posting.... One of the guys went for a blast in this 2 seater, I am pretty sure it is a 'Patroney' with an EJ25.... I thought you guys might like to see it. It is a very nice machine, flies well.... it was 34 celcius and humid today, he said it was a bit sluggish from takeoff to about 200' then it was performing well.... being very hot and humid, even tho the strip is about 30' asl, it prolly felt like 4000' :badluck :laughing :Wolvie

Enjoy....
Author:  elwood [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 seat Aussie-Tub at Caboolture today
That is cool, where is the turbo? :laughing
Author:  MadMuz [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 seat Aussie-Tub at Caboolture today
Dammit! I knew something was missing :noidea :laughing :laughing
Author:  elwood [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 seat Aussie-Tub at Caboolture today
I like the tub body, The thing I didn't like about the MTO is the windshield right in your face, I was surprised how windy it was in the back even with the windshield.
Author:  MadMuz [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 seat Aussie-Tub at Caboolture today
Yeah, I'd say that the person in the back gets plenty of wind.... part of the fun I reckon :like

I like it that the radiator is above the engine, the only thing I would choose to do different is I don't like the single turning, full flying center element of the tail.... but it sure is a nice machine :koolaid :gyro2 :laughing
Author:  elwood [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 seat Aussie-Tub at Caboolture today
Yep flying tails.......Bad
Author:  autorotmachine [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 seat Aussie-Tub at Caboolture today
thanks muz for the pic good looking :OZ made tub :like she look cool ! the tub sit a little higher to lower the trust line and the mast dont lean forward like the factory euro is the frame in alu or 4130 like magni? i think with the diameter of the single mast and no side doubler that the wall tickness ot the square tube must be thick? is strait pipe with cherrybomb muffler is real long to try to not fume the tail !
Author:  Gabor [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 seat Aussie-Tub at Caboolture today
I have to attest to that the back seat in the MTO is very windy. The front is not bad at all. Even for a big guy like me. I have never had much wind in my face in the front seat of the MTO. The air gets very swirly leaving the pilot. And that throws the rushing air in all directions for the backseater guy.
There would be an easy solution. But I am too busy with other things .... like roofing and shit :)
Author:  MadMuz [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 seat Aussie-Tub at Caboolture today
autorotmachine wrote:
thanks muz for the pic good looking :OZ made tub :like she look cool ! the tub sit a little higher to lower the trust line and the mast dont lean forward like the factory euro is the frame in alu or 4130 like magni? i think with the diameter of the single mast and no side doubler that the wall tickness ot the square tube must be thick? is strait pipe with cherrybomb muffler is real long to try to not fume the tail !


The aluminium we use is 2" x 2.5" (50mm x 63mm) 3/16" wall and the internal corners are rounded..... it is 6061t6 and certified so.... The stuff is so strong it is unbelievable.... I have seen masts from blade strikes and the mast is bent about 2" at the most.... Personally, I would like to see the mast with the same alloy and internal corners but 2" x 3" ..... but having seen what this stuff can take, I just get reminded it is plenty strong enough..... we have 30 year old machines flying and I have never seen any of it crack, anywhere,,,, strong stuff and it is the only stuff ASRA will allow. We cant use 2 pieces of 2"x 1" clamped together any more and we aren't allowed to use 2"x 2".... just this stuff :like :lick :Wolvie
Author:  GyroGeorgia [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 seat Aussie-Tub at Caboolture today
We have a 'Mad Max' gyro at our hanger... the mast is 3 pieces of 1x2 AL tubing, 1/8" thick wall.
But then... just about everything on that MadMax is beefy.

As much as it pains me to say this... I am thankful for our FAA NOT being as involved as your ASRA (ARSA?) in aviation.
Author:  MadMuz [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 seat Aussie-Tub at Caboolture today
I am actually quite grateful they are GG, we have had people try to make gyros out of steel scaffolding tubes and clamp joints, welded RHS and in the old days with the 2 pieces of 2" x 1" clamped together, the masts used to snap off from blade strikes, and spear pilots....

So, I am very happy with this extrusion.... makes a fairly well bulletproof frame for the style of gyro I like :like :koolaid :pop :Wolvie
Author:  autorotmachine [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 seat Aussie-Tub at Caboolture today
ok muz thanks for the info i ask because when i look the pic it dont look rectangular it look like my 2x2 dom mast but its a single place not :Nazi and all euro tub have some doubler welded on the side mast, but mast leaning forward or reverse of the rotor thrust like my dom is harder on the mast, and i think if this big 2place have a 2x2 t6 alu well ! its 1/4 thick or what, but with your info its correct. because for me on a big 2place i will not put a 2x2 6061-t6 even 3/16 never, a 2/3 ok but for like 3+ more pound i think if its single alu mast and dont lean back i think i will put a 2/3 -1/4 but anyway with a dom 2place with the front 4130 tube no problem, i will follow the plan ! :like :Wolvie
Author:  GyroGeorgia [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 seat Aussie-Tub at Caboolture today
MadMuz wrote:
I am actually quite grateful they are GG, we have had people try to make gyros out of steel scaffolding tubes and clamp joints, welded RHS and in the old days with the 2 pieces of 2" x 1" clamped together, the masts used to snap off from blade strikes, and spear pilots....

So, I am very happy with this extrusion.... makes a fairly well bulletproof frame for the style of gyro I like :like :koolaid :pop :Wolvie


This is a tricky one Muz...

On the one hand... it is good to have basic standards... they tend to keep folks from killing themselves... and more importantly; OTHERS!

On the other hand... Polecats tend to take control WAAAY beyond where it needs to go... simply because they are control freaks.

IMO there is a legitimate argument for the safety of by-standers... However (again IMO) if some zero wants to build a gyro from scaffolding and kills himself... well that is the responsibility side of freedom....
One makes a decision, and is responsible for it... the way TRUE freedom works IMO. This idea the govt will protect me from making stupid choices... is IMO not freedom. TRUE freedom is I choose to pay attention to what I say and do... that is, take responsibility for it. One is an easy peasy way to coast through life... the other requires one to think first and refrain sometimes. And IMO the latter requires more maturity and wisdom to live.

Tricky balance.... folks do need to be governed.... yet govt in and of itself can be tyrannical (tyranny... which is supposed to be illegal in the USA).
Author:  autorotmachine [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 seat Aussie-Tub at Caboolture today
ok when you talk about steel scaffolding tubes muz :badluck :calmdown i found a thread of a guy that want to copy a euro gyro and ..... i think he make it in 2x2 stainless but... dont know is wall ticknes and rating... but aouch ! what this guy is thinking... he grind all is weld.. look on the mast... never see this :calmdown i am speechless the cart in walmart are better construc an welded it is sure some need to watch tv and dont touch killing machine :badluck :chainsaw http://giroweb.mforos.com/378414/102011 ... patagonia/
Author:  MadMuz [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 seat Aussie-Tub at Caboolture today
That is some scary construction Martin :eek

Yes, it becomes a difficult situation saying what can be used, or what cant be used more specifically..... I am sure that a good frame could be made from bonded, laminated ply wood.... and prolly rhs steel, although heavy, might be up to the job.... I don't kmow how it works in :Flag but over here, if you get a license/certificate to fly a plane, drive a car, drive a boat... in effect you are allowing the authorities to police you.... you think about it.... if you get your car license, you are saying that you agree to be fined or lose points and perhaps lose your license if you do bad things on the road..... when you sign for your license, you are agreeing to 'the terms' :killme

If someone has no license, they never agreed to let the highway police enforce rules on them and they haven't agreed to follow any rules at all.... and the police/courts cant take someones license if they don't have one :noidea

Same with gyros..... if someone in :OZ joins ASRA (Australian Sports Rotorcraft Association) which you MUST to legally fly a gyro in :OZ ...// although, if you own a farm and make a gyro out of anything at all, there is nothing to stop you flying anything over your own property..... the issue is that to fly over roads and public/private property not belonging to the pilot.... there needs to be some conformity in the construction at least..... Our ASRA is made up of flyers who have been around and seen alsorts of stuff..... they are the ones that have to deal with CASA (our FAA) and they have organised $1 million insurance for all gyro pilots as part of ASRA membership.... if they want me to use this stuff, this is what I will use..... they want aircraft (AN) bolts.... I use AN bolts..... and I will be a member of ASRA.... so I will remain covered. I also know, if I go to a fly in, the machines will be ASRA approved, so apart from pilot bungles from overconfidence, no machines should break or fail..... so, although I can be a bit of a rebel and a bit anti establishment at times .... in this instance, I will accept what they recommend... especially since ASRA is very transparent and lacking in Ego's.... the guys coming up with these rules are the guys that have had to pull dead bodies out of tangled messes of once were gyros....

The unfortunate thing is that even tho the machines are built to a good standard now, pilots still insist on building machines without suitable HS or choose to build HTL machines which often brings them undone still...... the fact that pilots are not learning the skills of rotor handling and hand spinning, and the fact that some machines now can't be hand started.... and also the fact that crowds/friends/family/cameras often incite pilots to push that extra little bit too hard and roll perfectly good machines in balls :killme

Out west, I am sure people are still flying gyros with hardware bolts, fence post suspension, wheel barrow wheels and milk crates for seats and dog leashes for seat belts..... as long as they don't fly over suburbs and towns and crash onto schools and shopping centers and draw attention to us, the legal gyro fliers, then all is good I guess? :noidea :badluck :laughing :laughing
Author:  autorotmachine [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 seat Aussie-Tub at Caboolture today
:like
Author:  MadMuz [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 seat Aussie-Tub at Caboolture today
Thanks Martin....This guy's wife also flies gyros... she has a pink RAF, I think it is, that got damaged and is being rebuilt..... I think it is a RAF, if Russ or any of the Aussies read this, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong :like :pop :yoda
Author:  autorotmachine [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 seat Aussie-Tub at Caboolture today
i think this guy will be better with your t6 extrusion and bolted plate like the yellow in your pic that never crack than is thin metal and grinding weld if it start to look like this with vibration crack in flight thing can be not to fun and real ugly
Author:  elwood [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 seat Aussie-Tub at Caboolture today
Wow! that was just one flight away from a smoking hole!
Author:  autorotmachine [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 seat Aussie-Tub at Caboolture today
bolted aluminum is more predictable and easyer to work with even magni put double tig welded plating reinforcement on is 4130 frame for me if jake build is gyro with bolted aluminum and he is a top-pro tig welder if he dont do it, its because its not Worth it
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