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The 4 seater
http://skywolverines.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1941		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Gabor [ Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:04 am ]
Post subject:  The 4 seater
Start salivating :wol
Author:  MadMuz [ Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The 4 seater
That is a nice drawing Gabs.... I can see 4 dwarfs fitting in that really nicely :laughing :laughing

It is a shame that crossed rotors like that are not safe, it would be an easy way to make 4 blade setup.... maybe when someone comes up with a rotorhead that wont break it will work.... where did you find the picture Gabs? Is someone going to try to actually make it? :noidea :gyro2 :Wolvie

I doubt the main legs would work like that either? The front side area would far outweigh the tail area and if someone did a cross control slip it would be easy to tip over .... not to mention the weight... but like I said, nice artwork :like :pop
Author:  Gabor [ Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The 4 seater
It is a concept. If l remember correctly it's a Malaysian government project. 4 seater is doable. Large enough cabin and a 6 cylinder Lycoming would do it.
Author:  elwood [ Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The 4 seater
The GB4 hawk is much better.....PT-6 engine, and AC, plus jump takeoff...plus it has already been built....I mean if you are going to get a 4 seater, go all the way right?
Author:  Gabor [ Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The 4 seater
The GB4 is expensive as hell.
It is basically a Bell.
These guys were shooting for cheap.
I do like however the aesthetics.
Everything else is simply technical solution.
I can see 4 people sitting in that thing if it's built to the size.
Author:  loftus [ Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The 4 seater
It is pretty - my family could fit :wol2 :wol2 :wol2 :wol2
Author:  Gabor [ Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The 4 seater
Or....just me and have reserve power!
Author:  MadMuz [ Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The 4 seater
It is a nice idea, but the cost of running it would be worse than a helicopter, weight is the gyros enemy.... that is why the J2 and 18A and the like never were successful..... why pay the same money for a gyro when you could have a helicopter for around the same amount.... and you can insure the helicopter :noidea also, you cant run 2 sets of rotors like that..... they have tried it here, Kruza tried it and Chuck B tried it. Each pair needs to be free to autorotate on their own otherwise one set is trying to autorotate at the speed it wants and the other set is trying to do the speed it wants, so the 2 rotor sets fight each other and either wreck the head towers or are very hard on the hub teeter blocks and bushes, not to mention the teeter bolts.... 4 blades is a good idea in theory, just not 2 teetering rotors crossed like that....... prolly 30' with 9" chord would be enough? just not 2 sets crossed.... :badluck :realcrazy :laughing :wol2
Author:  Gabor [ Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The 4 seater
SportCopter makes blades that would fly happily a 4 seater!
They have a pretty good track record of flying freaking monsters.
So I am not worried about having blades that would be sufficient.
I kind of like the idea of having 4 seats.
R44 killed all the other helicopter sales.
And it's a Robbie!!!!
4 seats are the bomb. Preferred number by most.
Author:  MadMuz [ Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The 4 seater
Yeah, 4 seat would be great, but just my own opinion, I would rather buy a TAG so I can take the kids for a fly in a gyro, but buy a 172 or similar to take the family on vacation and such..... I love my gyros, but trying to squeeze 4 adults into a gyro that is made as light as humanly possible and still the weight makes it burn more gas than an R44 is not an option to me..... it would be a nice dream, but I doubt it would ever become a reality.... I know it would never be registerable in :OZ and the cost of getting it classified as GA would be astronomical....

another point, I actually think that gyros need to keep out of GA's hair.... if gyros keep getting bigger and sleeker and try to get into established GA markets, the hammer will eventually come down and gyros will be rule bound out of existance :badluck :killme

I also worry that, now there is about 10 or more euro clones available and more popping up all of the time.... there is only a limited potential market wanting gyros.... soon there will be far too many manufacturers for the amount of gyros required and the bottom will fall out of the market for some manufacturers...... The bubble must burst at some point :eek :badluck :realcrazy :puke3
Author:  GyroGeorgia [ Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 4 seater
And with a few political exceptions....

The best (and best managed) will survive and the rest will be aviation history.

Competition is the mother of invention... build a better mousetrap, and the folks with mice issues will find your store.

Funny thing about the Euro-tubs... the are mostly similar. The subtle ideas are where the improvements will come.
Author:  Dropbear [ Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 4 seater
I heard from a credible eyewitness ... the Germans are working on a 4 seat Cavalon .... sounded like they were working with some of the new aviation-wanna be powerplants ... such as UL power to drive it! Also an electric version of MTO / Calidus ..... THAT sounds a bit dodgy - to me!!! :eek .....trying to get more than 30 mins flight-time out of the batteries was the current barrier to bust! ( might have to go hybrid & have a little goped engine charging batteries as you go) ... still ... even the new-gen light lithiums ... have a rep for catching on fire in aircraft .... UHUH NO THANKS!
Author:  farmer jim [ Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 4 seater
John -

Thé TAG incorporates many previously PROVEN design characteristics, and then refines the best into a DREAM :-)

It will have it's market corner, which I believe will be big !

After all, Could a gyromut ask for much more than a TITANIUM FRAME, A ROTAX, and STUBBY HOLDERS ?!?!

fj. :OZ :Flag :bigballs








ote="GyroGeorgia"]And with a few political exceptions....

The best (and best managed) will survive and the rest will be aviation history.

Competition is the mother of invention... build a better mousetrap, and the folks with mice issues will find your store.

Funny thing about the Euro-tubs... the are mostly similar. The subtle ideas are where the improvements will come.[/quote]
Author:  GyroGeorgia [ Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 4 seater
I wish I could afford a Euro-tub... would be fun to fly!

However I need to start buying lottery tickets if I am gonna expect that... :laughing :laughing :laughing
Author:  autorotmachine [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 4 seater
good looking gyro pic gab, and yes with the comments about the gb hawks 4 that is nearly a bell, i think it start with a lycoming 540 before the turbine, the real problem is, it cost the price of a 5place r66 over 15 years ago.... , and the company is now chinese.., for the rotor on your pic gab i think rotortec germany try this,i see some pic of the double seesaw welded metal blade hub with ernie blade...on hi cloud dancer? dont know if it still work today or if he find it like chuck beaty, or acheave it with some voodoo...? http://www.rotortec.com/cloud%20dancer%202.htm
Author:  Gabor [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 4 seater
Martin great find! As usual. The double bladed system is still having issues but not to the point where it is completely a loss.
The new experiments are targeting the upper blades being wider chord wise and shorter in length.
This creates a better performance at the top blades are using the ineffective are of the lover blades which is the inner portion of the long blades.
Increasing the width of the upper blades are equalizing the torque and the generated lift increases.
I have seen a few data about it. It is promising. Mostly used on helicopters though.
Any success will be probably stolen by the gyro guys :laughing
Author:  autorotmachine [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 4 seater
thank you gab for your good info :like :wol :Wolvie
Author:  Hillberg [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 4 seater
Think I'll go buy an old Enstrom.......... :bunny
Author:  autorotmachine [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 4 seater
good deal or machine for the price hillberg ?
Author:  MadMuz [ Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The 4 seater
I reckon the second blades should be shorter and wider chord and on the same plane as the main, normal blades, with the shorter blades more flexible or with hinges.... having a set of blades so high above the gimble makes for a very heavy stick.... next they will need hydraulic or electric assistance to add even more weight :badluck :killme :laughing :laughing
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