Pretty crappy quality videos, they were taken on a full size VHS camera then transferred to PC in the late 90's... so, technology was pretty awesome as you would expect
That was the first machine I built... it was an EA81 direct drive Subaru with a VW type wood prop... Jerry Goodwin rotors ... I didn't have anyone to teach me, so I just taught myself.
You can see the machine settling under power... I was trying to hold it off with the stick... which just induced drag and it settled. It was probably a good thing too... because otherwise I would probably have tried to fly it right away... I rang a guy who was in ASRA and asked what I was doing wrong... he said "Put the f%king stick forward a bit!"... the next day I did this and got to actually fly it at height along the runway... then even do some circuits... which you will see in the next video...
A bit of a laugh
_________________ I do all of my own stunts..... most of them are even planned!Ok, Ok.... some of them are planned..
If electricity comes from ELECTRONS, then surely morality comes from MORONS??
Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:30 pm
MadMuz
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excellent videos, I Imagine you had had a previous FW flying experience ,
Yes Giro, I already had my license for Cessna and microlight/ultralight flying... the lack of power probably saved my life. Had I been able to fly off in it on the first day, I would probably have fallen in the 'trap' that claims alot of FW pilots getting into gyros. Because I could get it off the ground, but it would settle back onto the ground (2,200' ASL)... I learned to land straight... taught me foot responses on the rudder pedals
_________________ I do all of my own stunts..... most of them are even planned!Ok, Ok.... some of them are planned..
If electricity comes from ELECTRONS, then surely morality comes from MORONS??
Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:04 am
MadMuz
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I mentioned a long time ago that I was once at Lake George (NSW, Australia) when 3 Windryders turned up... well, I found the video and put it on Youtube... Enjoy
Don't forget the big ficker tomorrow!
_________________ I do all of my own stunts..... most of them are even planned!Ok, Ok.... some of them are planned..
If electricity comes from ELECTRONS, then surely morality comes from MORONS??
Fri Jul 15, 2022 11:43 am
Girodreamer
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I love the phone call to the guy who told you push the fucking stick hahaha .. it is absolutely incredible that you managed not to break anything .. a good thing that your engine was not powerful enough to get you at 4 m before you got behing the power curve (((-: I have hardly broken everything doing my crow ... I was doing crow hops hops ... I had not noticed I was 4 meters above the ground and I started pulling back the throttle ... but I remembered I had to push the stick ... but I did it to late ... did not brake the gyro .. but could have .. newbies don't know how luck their are with tandems and instructors thanks for all those vids
Sat Jul 16, 2022 1:55 am
MadMuz
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I love the phone call to the guy who told you push the fucking stick hahaha ..
Yes Giro, I would run along the ground and take off perfectly... but as it slowed down. I would try to hold the nose up with the stick... which of course would induce lots of drag... so I had no choice but to land.
In effect, I was getting lots of takeoff and landing practice... but not able to turn or fly off anywhere. I must have done 100 of those, then, that night I rang this guy from ASRA, (Terry Boatswain)... and that was his advice haha
The next day at the strip, when it felt like I would normally take off (by pulling the stick back) ... I actually let the stick forward a small amount... the ground speed increased (like letting off the hand brake) and then the whole machine lifted off.
Once I did that, it all clicked in my head... and from then on, I could manage to do circuits. We couldn't actually fly away from the strip, it was within the area of the Canberra International airport... in fact, the rotating radar antenna was on the hill next to the strip... so, could do low circuits or just fly low over the strip
All of this is the evidence that FW aicrafts and gyros are diffent ... TODAY (no when you selt trained) , knowing all that we know about gyros, the big error of the authorities and of the market is to let fucking old FW pilots think that they can use their FW experience in gyro ... they think their are pilots ... and they are not ...not gyro pilots ...
they should be treated like newbies and forced to dual train as long as they had to train to become FW pilots .. but they want to sell gyros .. nothing else tere is no ethics in sport aviation anymore ...
Here down in france there are plenty of accidents involving former FW pilots ... .and in the alpes it is always the same story, plenty of germans (big guys suddently confronted with 4000 m moutains absolutely everywhere, deep valley ..) the number of forces landing in the mountains is just crazy .. many survive .. but not all ...
i know no pure gyro pilots or ex fw pilot having been trained properly dying in a gyro... they don't get caught behind the PW they can make spot landings, they can make a U turn anywhere enven at the bottom of a deep walley .. they pilot malnly wit the throttle and not the stick etc etc
in most cases badly gyro trained ex fw pilots get caught behind the power curve (either while taking off, either when flying low having to pass high obstacles)... the last was flying in a mountain area , with a an enclosed gyro .... he came to see my friend and said He needed a new gyro with a rotoax 915 and a 8.9 m rotor because He sometimes had issues ascending at the rate he desired...
he was sure it cames from his gyro ..
one month ago he took off from an airfield at the bottom of a deep valley ... he had given rides for money all the afternoon long... he then took off late to get back to his airfield ... the wind was hard .. instead of orbiting to climb higher the moutains to pass the high gap with a descent margin
he tried directly ... and got caught in a downdraft in the valley and his rotax 915 and long rotor did not help him .. he crashed in the forest .. full throttle (we saw the engine log file) ...unable to pass the gap ... of course he died ... a chance he had nobody with him ...
imagine the big asshole ... he flew low on top of the forest, so low that he could not even make a youturn ...with altitude a youturn in gyro is simply super easy... just a smal autorotation you press the rudder pedal and you are in the reveser direction ... those people have never been shown what is a gyro .. for them it is a FW with a rotor ...they don't have a clue of what they can do with it .. and they don't realise tat the biggest danger is to get behing the curve ... I am horrible with this guy ..( I has only seen him a couple of times and only notices his arrogance) .. anyway ...
in my hangar most of people are showing off with their eclipses, magnis, etc they speak as if they had flown gyros for years and years ...
I always say tp them... gyros can't safely fly slowly close to the ground ... close to the ground = speed , but precisely they don't have the balls to push the stick ... in spite of the fact they have been taught to ... but you know what they think they know how to fly ...
back to your experience, it must have been a surprise for you when you released the hand brake ! just like a rockt
I love to hover on ground effetc .. I always exceed Vx, when the runway is long, just for the fun of it ... I love the rocket sensation when I pull the stick ...
if all those people who who fly heavy eurobathtub knew what it is possible to do with a gyro .. they would both be safe and have fun ... and they would avoid braking theyr 160.000 euros flying suppository ..
how heavy was your mono ? (empty)
Sun Jul 17, 2022 6:18 am
MadMuz
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I never weighed my machines Giro... I would say around 160kg
The biggest trouble I see for fixed wing pilots in my day, was that no one could/would explain the differences between controlling a gyro compared to controlling a FW... and FW pilots generally react to unusual situations with their fixed wing training and reactions... which is what usually kills them.
I say that comparing a gyro to a FW is like comparing a car to a fork lift truck. Both cars and fork lifts have 4 wheels and a steering wheel... gas pedal and brake pedal. Just because one can drive a car, doesn't mean they can safely drive a fork lift... many a car driver has tipped over a fork lift, or tipped a load off the forks
A fixed wing pilot learning to fly a gyro only needs to understand the differences... I was lucky enough to find out on my own, as I explained earlier... I had been told I would likely kill myself because I could fly a plane... but no one told me the simple differences... that, I learned myself. One also has to learn to allow for the 'delay' from moving the stick until the desired action begins.... and to do half movements of the stick... like, if you think you need to move the top of the stick 3" for an effect... only move it 1.5" and add a little more if it is not enough... rather than overdoing the stick movement and trying to adjust back to a lesser movement.
All a pilot needs to know is the stick thing... if you are in a gyro and need to climb over the trees at the end of the strip... don't try to climb with the stick... you will simply 'waffle' into the trees or have to land short of the trees (without choice)
All one has to do is allow the ground speed to increase... if the front wheel rises off the ground... let it back onto the ground to gain ground speed then fly off 3 wheels together... or, my favorite takeoff was (at strips with obstacles to climb over, was to 'horse off early' ... which was yanking the machine off the ground early, then ease the stick forward to gain air speed without climbing much... then when enough airspeed, the smallest amount of back stick would initiate a very good climb rate. So, really, I would lift off much too early (once the rotors were up to speed) then 'continue the take off run' in the air.
I learned my 'party trick' which was to 'air taxi' wherever possible. Like, on approach, I would aim for the piano keys (which were close to each end of the strip, not at 1/3rd from each end... I could approach at any speed of aircraft sharing the circuit... if there were Cessnas, I could approach around 70kts, then level out a few feet above the runway.... float along about the speed a Cessna would roll out... slow down to 10kts or so and turn into the taxi way and continue along at 5-10 kts.... and when I get to the stopping/parking area, just drop onto the ground and park
It was much smoother /less bumpy air taxying than rolling along tatty taxiways... and it was fun watching people looking for the 'helicopter bits' I must have had on my machine so I could air taxi... Naturally, this was when winds were favorable... if turning off the runway onto a taxiway that had a tail wind... I had to put it on the ground and roll to the parking area.
One thing I wouldn't do... was taxi without my rotors turning... too much risk of damaging the hub bar doing a long taxy with the rotor stopped... besides, once I left the start up area, I could have the rotor over the hump by the time I got to the thresh hold for takeoff...
You can see how fast the rotor got going on the video where I was flying from the property in Gunning...
Do you like the way I came over the fence and plopped on the ground on the last landing haha... there was about a 20kt wind straight down the strip at me.
_________________ I do all of my own stunts..... most of them are even planned!Ok, Ok.... some of them are planned..
If electricity comes from ELECTRONS, then surely morality comes from MORONS??
Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:29 am
MadMuz
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I think that the way rich FW ex pilot coming to gyro are taught can't make them realize in real life the differencies you explain I saw this from my own eyes ..
I am a ridiculous pilot .. with only a couple of hundreds hours of experience, let's say 1.5 rotax 582 tbo, I am not saying this to show off or anything.
but I see the accidents ... take off, low flying, moutain flying, overweighed guys flying at the end of hot days ... they just can't realize hod draggy is a rotor .
they are only taught to take off and land ... they sign the check and get their eclipse and go.
I loved your video, the fence one and the others
160 kg for a gyro is a super light weight, mine is 180 kg.. I lack power to weight ratio , I stopped flying for a months or two cause it is too hot ... too dangerous
I can't wait to test my last tandem with my rotax turbo ... it will change my life,
Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:54 pm
Henry Bowman
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Well, I'll tell ya boys, I learned to fly in a dual place gyroplane and had Jim Vanek (who I consider to be one of the worlds greatest pilots) as my CFI. I have crunched, rolled, broken or destroyed every part on my gyro except me at least once and sometimes twice! There are some things that just don't sink in or get experienced in training...
One time I decided to fly in stronger winds. Had no prerotator. Got parked at end of ramp. Faced into the wind and spun up, dropped down feet on breaks. My position in seat was not good so in order to buckle I was squirming around. Got belt on but used both hands....stick full back...machine slid back a foot till tailwheel stopped on windrow edge of runway...before I could realize the correct action...I went up and over.... Hanging upside down it finally sunk in that the engine not running has nothing to do with flying, and never take your hand off the contols...because then you are not in control.
Also learned that my wife is pretty keen on me, and Sportcopter parts are very expensive but built tough as hell!
Then there was the time.....
Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:28 pm
Hillberg
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:56 am Posts: 3073 Location: VERY LOW LOW LOW EARTH ORBIT
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Bro, if this kind of shit happened to you despite the fact Jim Vanek had perfectly educated you, imagine how easy it is for a poorly educated to brake everything...
I have "lived" two examples showing how flapping phenomena is badly taught ....
in both cases the lady and the guy who had broken their gyro told me "I don't understand I have landed, then I waited stick ahead until the rotor slowed to 50 rpm and then I turned left and the the gyro rocked on it's left side"
they had both thought that a low rotor rpm would protect them from a stick error and flapping: it means that their instructor had not insisted enough on this very important point.
it is counter intuitive .. when a rotor turns slowly and that the pilot forgets to put the stick laterally so that the rotor has a negative angle of attack vs the wind, the difference in lift btw the "retreating blade and the advancing blade" is much more important then when the rotor is spinning at 300 rpm, hence the flapping angle become huge, the rotor hits it's flapping stops, hits the ruder, lays down the gyro ...
Old gyro pilots knew this because they would pre-rotate manually and learn not to accelerate hard in order to avoid flapping their blades ...
today it is different, newcomers have pre-rotators, never learn rotor management and one day or later brake their gyros ...
Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:59 am
Girodreamer
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