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Safety and Logs
http://skywolverines.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5140		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  JonCarleton [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Safety and Logs
I got a piece of really good advice from an FAA representative the other day during the investigation of a gyroplane/fixed-wing incursion at our little airport in NW Georgia. The incursion was a non-event as there was no damage, injury or even close call. However, the fixed-wing pilot made a complaint (even though he was at fault), so there was an investigation.

During the course of the inquiry, I mentioned that our gyroplane pilots talk about safety and procedure all the time at our meetings. We all carry radios and use them...and make a point to test them, when possible, before each flight. Our quarterly meetings frequently contain safety presentations or content. We fly Experimental Aircraft. Half of what we talk about is how to make them safe and keep them in the air without issues...mechanical or otherwise.

The rep asked if we had logs of what we talked about and when. I had to say, "no." He said, "Too bad, logs of ongoing safety discussions would blow anyone out of the water who tried to claim your gyroplane pilots were not operating safely because they don't know what they are doing."

Well...we now will log everything of consequence we talk about in the safety and education department. That's too easy not to do. It may make cheap insurance. I just plunked down a Safety section in the Peach State Rotorcraft site. Simple.

I recommend similar procedures for any club or organization.
Author:  Gabor [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Safety and Logs
Valid point. I was always wondering about why we don't have any printed safety regs handed out to pilots at fly ins.
Lot of good ideas and valid concerns are being addressed during pilot briefings.
If they were written down they wouldn't be forgotten and apparently could be used against baseless accusations.
Although I really prefer just to punch them assholes in the mouth behind their hangars.....
Did I say that out loud???? Shit.....
I meant I prefer to have a constructive....or reconstructive....discussion about the incident :rofl
Author:  Hillberg [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Safety and Logs
document everything . journals - log books, diaries, notes all are good. even a sticky note ... saves the bacon every time. :laughing
Author:  bryancobb [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Safety and Logs
Jon,

You know of me and I am in your neck of the woods. I have long-time PREVIOUS fixed wing flying buddy who flew A LOT and routinely made straight-in approaches opposite the pattern in use and he commonly complained to the FAA on ultralights, gyros, skydivers, and helicopters. Everyone except him was always wrong. He always zoomed into the FBO in his exotic car and parked 2 ft. from the door, right on top of the NO PARKING LETTERS, and banged in the door barking orders at the line-workers. You probably know him or know of him.


His FAA dossier contains several flunked checkrides, a gear up landing, declaring an emergency at PDK when he accidentally flew over the outer marker and freaked at the blinking light and warning horn, and landing on the taxiway at Daytona.

In contrast, I have passed every checkride (first time), I have never put a scratch on an aircraft in 32 years of flying, and have never been violated by FAA.

He called the FAA on me claiming I installed AutoZone bearings in a customer`s helicopter. When the safety inspector came to my shop, I SHOWED HIM MY GOOD RECORD-KEEPING WHERE I PURCHASED THE BEARINGS DIRECTLY FROM THE MANUFACTURER. The Fafnir Boxes had the SHOP-ORDER on them and the invoice agreed. The boxes even had "NOT FOR USE ON HELICOPTERS" printed on the inside.

MORALS OF THE STORY--
* Keep Complete Accurate Records
* Many pilots, often your friends, are "know-it-all" asshole narcissists
* Be Safe, Always
* When you are a genuine "themz good-people," others (and The FAA) can tell
Author:  JonCarleton [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Safety and Logs
Thanks, all. So far, people in other clubs I have spoken to also plan starting briefing logs. They ALL have similar stories of the "token nudge" for their airport. I should have seen it before...logging is key.

Hillberg: Mmmmmm....Bacon!!!
Author:  Hillberg [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Safety and Logs
also have the FAA guy quiz others in your local group even invite the FAA to join in . that too will work. unless you go off on the subject of toes...... :laughing
Author:  gyromike [ Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Safety and Logs
Also just about every smart phone has a Voice recorder app, or one can be downloaded for free.
Consider using this at your meetings.

I just transcribed the minutes of our last hangar owners meeting. About an hour long and 56 Mb.
I just start the app and lay the phone on the table and have a complete record of every word said, and I download the files to my desktop and backup thumb drive if I ever need to review or just send the file to whoever wants it.
Author:  loftus [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Safety and Logs
Just remember; if you keep strict logs, recordings etc of EVERYTHING that is said, then some things can come back to bite you.
So I am somewhere in the middle on this. I think judicious documentation of appropriate safety issues AND appropriate recommendations of corrections made etc are a good thing. I would think that the type of thing that the FDA really wants to see is the type of thing that already exists with certified and FW aircraft and even helis, like generally accepted training manuals and methods,advisories on engine failures etc, so it's not really recreating the wheel.
I think in the gyro world unfortunately many of the issues regarding appropriate training, flying around public airports, what constitutes a safe aircraft design, engine options etc, etc are still not settled with vast differences in opinion - like crow hops vs no crow hops for example. Also gyro folks might have to make some behavioral changes at least around public airports that take a little bit of the fun out of flying gyros, like flying the pattern etc.
So I think keeping logs etc is a good thing, but overall what they will want to see, is the type of stuff that already exists in the FW and certified world, just adjusted for gyros, and that is where I think you will find it tougher to do in practice in the gyro world, at least outside of the Eurogyro company type mentality.
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