I never said I fought for anyone's rights!?!?!?!
Copy and paste please because I am failing to see that shit!
I said that NOT ONE OF US HAVE EVER FOUGHT FOR ANYONE'S RIGHT!!!!
You and I both fought to simply survive the battle!
Neither one of us was thinking about great God given human rights to be saved in the fucking fox hole but rather save our own chickenshit lives.
You and I both were fucking scared as shit and just wanted to make it through.
Wasn't either my or your choice. It's called the draft.
So I am still not seeing where Benry got his disappointment from and you totally missed what I was saying and took it up on yourself as if I was trying to marginalize your and other's service.
I would NEVER do that!

I'll take you up on that beer!

I have only one regret in my life, and that is not serving in the military. I feel I have no credibility not defending our flag. But if I was ever called up to serve , I would have gladly accepted.

Jake, thank you for your service to my patch of ground that has been a paradise for me.

Gabor, you never fought for our country in the military, but I thank you for fighting for it as.a civilian. You love this country more than 99% that were born here.

You have lived communism and appreciate a life opposite of it.

I know you two dont believe in God and that's your business to believe what you want. I personally believe as a Christian there is without a doubt a God. However , my Christian beliefs are the NUMBER one target by the secular world. The LGBT, Hollywood, liberal news media , most democrats, many Republicans are at war against Christian values. They are making Christians a hate group and its not going to get better.

This world is a freakin nightmare of a mess, and its getting exponentially worse. Yet, I am living economically the best ever in my whole working life.

I know the plug is going to be pulled soon, and we will have to deal with a much different world. But, strangely I am not worried one bit, just preparing.

That's my 2 cents.

I enlisted, it was safer than my neighborhood and I got to see the world others live in.
My only regret is that I should have become a better man from it.
But I was still able to leave a mark on this earth without intentional input.
My next move is to be a teacher of the industrial arts to problem inner city children.
Working on a grant as we speak.
I doubt it will go through but I'm gonna give it a shot.
Looking back on our regrets does the future no good.

Seems to me you are the one being emotional here.
And yes I think you are delusional if you think owning an assault rifle somehow is protecting your 'GOD given freedoms' and rights or somehow keeping big government off your back. I'm also an atheist, so nothing god given for me. Bottom line is if you don't pay your taxes, you go to jail, and if you resist they'll kill your ass no matter how much you gave for your country in the military, or what type of government system you believe we have Jake. The government has removed many of our freedoms long ago, mostly by controlling your money and your stuff. They don't need to go to war with you or fight you man to man. Maybe your guns will protect you from an asshole neighbor or criminal, but that's about it
Now before you get all emotional on me again, I really have no problem with you owning all the guns you want, I'm not an anti-guns, and I'm not campaigning for someone to try take them away. I own guns, though Im sure not as many as you or as lethal as yours. I'm just not delusional about what they can do for me, as that war's already been lost. So yes I still think you are delusional if you think your guns can protect you or defend you from the government powers that be in the 21st century, or some truly delusional crackpot like the asshole in Vegas. But dream on if you want, has no effect on me.
And none of this has anything to do with respect for the military or lack of respect for you or Jake's service, so I'm not sure where all that comes from in this conversation. Also not sure where this thing about me thinking government is magnanimously doling shit out to me, on the contrary I think they mostly take my shit away and dole it out to others who are truly on the dole. I may not have your service to country etc, but I came here in 1980 with nothing but a suitcase, I've done well and I am thankful for it, and to guys like you who have allowed it to happen. Also not too pleased with the transition to socialism that is happening in this country, despite all your guns and your military service, and guys like you dying to protect this country.
And I still think Trump is a fucktard. Just exercising my freedom of speech here. But I thought that long before he ran for president, so nothings changed, except he's reinforced my view.
You guys can carry on screaming and yelling at me and each other, if it makes you feel better. Ask Gabs if he thinks I'm dragged around by my emotions, he probably knows me best. Never met you Ben, not sure I want to, and no doubt you feel the same about me.
I don't agree with Gabs much on politics, but he's a giant to me in lots of ways. Not just my backseat beefcake.

I knew you saw me nekid!
Damn.... my secret is out.

Love you man, especially with your clothes off

After that , I think I need to take a shower with lots of soap and mind bleach...................Nakid ? more bleach

I have an assault rifle, to play with, and for a very small reason...possibly being able to overcome maybe a couple of bad guys with it if needed.

But my longevity wont be increased very long. I was at a gun show and got to talking with a stranger about our ammo stock. He had around 40,000 rounds of ammo. I asked him if all that extra ammo was for bartering. "Bartering?" he replied. "Its for self defense!"

I told him that I was a fairly decent shooter, but would honestly say that after 100 rounds fired in a battle, the odds would have me taken out. Definitely after a few hundred rounds. I am talking about one on one shooting at each other.

So, my Sig Sauer M400 is just my play toy this side of anarchy, and afterwards, if I go engage in a shootout, I might live a little longer.

Ditto! I wish I would have served.

Loftus, I would never suggest that we sbouldnt meet and possibly already have. You fly gyros.thats enough.
Gabs my dissapointment stems from the fact as a foreign national getting citizenship I assumed you had to pass a civics test.
Both of you were commeting and agreeing that the 2nd ammendment didnt guarentee your freedoms and heres the rub...I was dissapointed that you guys dont realize the Bill of Rights doesnt GRANT YOU ANY FREEDOMS. It only says these basic human rights may not be trampled by a govt. And that IF a govt tries to, you may react with impunity.
As for the colonists having the same basic weapons as the govt...we still do. Most prolific rifle by sales in US is AR15....military issues? M16....same gun, less contollable.
The intent of the framers was that localized power could band togther if need be....thats why to this day Sheriffs have (on paper anyway) such a huge amount of power.
The emotional response comments are because this conversation only comes up here after a mass shooting event. So dont pretend its not a verbal fist shaking at the sky....

And if you still feel im not worth meeting, that will be easy enough. Im a whole day ahead of you.

Glad it's quieted down; I get exactly what you're saying about the 2nd amendment and the bill of rights. Simply saying that successive governments, particularly since 1913, progressivism etc, have found the way to get around these wonderful documents - and in effect trampled on these rights, and made your gun ownership ineffective in protecting these rights, which in many cases have already been taken away. As for being able to react with impunity, please name one example in modern America where an individual or group was able to act with impunity using their weapons when they felt their rights were being trampled on. Every one I am aware of got snuffed out. The events at Waco come to mind. As it happens I am not a David Koresh supporter, but still don't like the way things went down.
So no this is not an emotional reaction to a tragic event in Vegas. I'm not calling for guns to be banned etc, just an observation that I've had for a while that all the NRA BS and the feeling of security that folks get from owning assault rifles (with regard to protecting themselves from an oppressive government) is a delusion, irrespective of what the framers intended.The verbal fist shaking at the sky is as much from the gun owners and the NRA as the anti-gun lobby.
Both sides are deluded. The gun lobby for the reasons I've stated, and the anti-gun lobby for thinking that some type of ban will change things on the ground in modern America. We are way beyond all that for both sides. I am also observing that unfortunately the right to gun ownership is conferred on loonies like the Vegas guy, which resulted in the rights of many people to gather freely and have fun, to be snuffed out by one of their own. Call it friendly fire if you like. So it's all a paradox, and it's all screwed up, a wonderful plan and wonderful intentions of the framers all gone awry. And I don't have any answers. Too many people is at the root of most modern world problems, but that's another discussion entirely, because that would get us onto climate change and trashing the planet, and I know I ain't gonna get any sympathy on this forum in that area.

Yes I did have to take a civics test and probably know more about it than an average homegrown.
The bill of rights guarantees nothing!
The bill of rights only states what should be our unalienating God-given rights.
I am greatly aware of the government's intrusion and dismissal of those rights regularly.
So with my past experience in how to manage life in a country where a certain group of people will determine how the rest should live their lives I have no illusions about the effectiveness of the second amendment.
The amendment has been amended to a point where it is nothing more than a mere bloody bone thrown to the last of the Patriots to hang onto.
But it's only a bone now! It used to have meat on it. It was never meant to be interpreted as it is today.
Thanks to our fucked up judicial system the liberal judges decided that nobody needs an automatic weapon. Nobody needs a freaking warship.
But why not? According to their logic, we don't need all that to hunt for food.....
If I remember correctly, it was never meant to be for hunting but rather keeping the government in check and match their firepower.
Anyways, this was screwed up before my time so I have nothing to do with all this shit and I am still that 19 year old scared kid in the foxhole but now I am 52 and have a lot to lose and don't feel that lucky anymore.
So I am playing by the rules because time that has passed by taught me a few things and besides enlarging my prostate and growing a beer belly on me it had some positive effects on me by changing my thinking. I ain't smarter I only became a bit wiser by the experiences.
I no longer need to prove myself to anyone!
For any reason. I am OK with what people think of me. (Just like Jake I don't give a flying fuck!)
I don't need to be accepted by anyone but by my family.
I did swear to fight foreign and domestic enemies of this country and I meant it.
Which is again more than the average homegrown does.
Selective services could tell you the number of registrants opposed to the number of the required ones.
I am not meant to be a hero, I am however a guy making it through as best as I can.
So back to the original argument about owning guns (restricted ones!!!!) giving a false feeling of security was right on the money by Lofty! (And no he ain't a lib and no he ain't giving a flying fuck either.....it's one of those Cancer qualities we share!!!! )
We may not agree, but that's how I feel too.
Piling up 3124769875314 rounds will not serve anyone. During the first 200 round, you will be shot!
Period. So you just paid for 3124769875114 cartridges for nothing.
The patriot act has completely given a legal right for this government become a regime!
Yet none of these mass-murdering mother fuckers were caught or even surveillanced.
Flight attendants now have the right to have you arrested for whatever reason they can make up!
If an intruder comes to my place and I shoot the guy I can be in trouble for legally defending myself.
The Obama administration used and abused the IRS, FBI, CIA, HLS and all the mother fucking agencies on taxpayer money against the taxpaying mass!
So I am at the point where I find myself reverting to the mentality of riding the system to stay above the water.
I don't know what the solution is but I know one thing. We might have guns in private hands but we always will be outgunned by the regime!
Always. Until we return to a state of mind where people understand that governments don't have rights to restrict your God-given ones!
We have passed that turning point a long time ago and as the culture is evolving I do NOT see us returning to the basics because the mentality has changed so much already that no amount of handguns can turn it back to normal.
The fights are no longer happening on the streets hand to hand. The fights are fought in the warm cozy bedrooms sitting behind the laptop and typing away under a false sense of security and often repeated beliefs of our unalienated rights we supposedly have.......

If they come for me I'm gonna spam their Inbox and overload their Facebook and Twitter accounts with some bad ass memes!